Help Needed/Couple Questions Regarding A New Setup
Riseof the phoenix...I seriously doubt the 44lb/hr injectors is enough to get you to the desired rpm range. I'm doing 60lb siemens on my 346 and probably wont go past 7500. This way there is some wiggle room for later on too. I assume you drive your car on the street during rainstorms as to why you want your wipers?? I got rid of my wipers and the cowl got hacked off and it can be driven on the street still. Will gladly send you a pic of it and you will see it doesn't look bad at all. And will look real nice with the 5" VFN...I'd lean toward supervic but that's just me.
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (27)
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,728
Likes: 13
From: Jefferson City, MO
Riseof the phoenix...I seriously doubt the 44lb/hr injectors is enough to get you to the desired rpm range. I'm doing 60lb siemens on my 346 and probably wont go past 7500. This way there is some wiggle room for later on too. I assume you drive your car on the street during rainstorms as to why you want your wipers?? I got rid of my wipers and the cowl got hacked off and it can be driven on the street still. Will gladly send you a pic of it and you will see it doesn't look bad at all. And will look real nice with the 5" VFN...I'd lean toward supervic but that's just me.
nathansuttenfield@ccrsi.org
I drive the car on the street, but never in the rain. The only reason I would want to keep them is for inspection purposes, as I don't see how it would pass without them. I already take the car to a "friendly" place, but I don't think they would pass the car without wipers. If that was not an issue, I'd remove the cowl and get a 5" VFN hood, which is what I want anyway.
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (27)
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,728
Likes: 13
From: Jefferson City, MO
E85 is different from pump gas, the biggest difference is the SFR (stoci). E85 is 10.0.
You are talking about putting down 600-675ish BHP and you want the injectors to work 80% or below thats why I said 85-90's lb/hr. You should not run out of injector.
Just depends on how extreme you want to go with the car. You can do the dual pumps (aero or deutch) Aeromotive fuel regulator, a good teflon fuel line -8 would work.
Personally I would probably say the hell with it and go for more displacement. The amount of money your gonna spend to prep the car to get to this point, you could have spent that on a larger displacement shortblock. You got the heads already.
Add you a 50-100 shot on the bigger cubes and call it a day.
You are talking about putting down 600-675ish BHP and you want the injectors to work 80% or below thats why I said 85-90's lb/hr. You should not run out of injector.
Just depends on how extreme you want to go with the car. You can do the dual pumps (aero or deutch) Aeromotive fuel regulator, a good teflon fuel line -8 would work.
Personally I would probably say the hell with it and go for more displacement. The amount of money your gonna spend to prep the car to get to this point, you could have spent that on a larger displacement shortblock. You got the heads already.
Add you a 50-100 shot on the bigger cubes and call it a day.
Will an 85-90 injector be ok on say, a 150 to 200 shot, or would I need bigger? Remember, I'll be adding a Nitrous Outlet Stinger Plate system too.
I see what you're saying about upping the cubes, but honestly, my stock shortblock only has 45k on it and I've already got upgraded ARP rod bolts, so I'm just going to roll with it. I will sell my LS6 intake, rails, injectors, TB and SLP lid and filter, so I'll be able to put that money toward the Super Vic./4150 TB and all the small things I'll need to make the transition. Obviously, I'll need the fuel components too, but I'd need those even if I went bigger cubes, so that's a wash.
Yeah, I'd love to see some pics. If you can post them up on here, that would be great, or you could e-mail them to me:
nathansuttenfield@ccrsi.org
I drive the car on the street, but never in the rain. The only reason I would want to keep them is for inspection purposes, as I don't see how it would pass without them. I already take the car to a "friendly" place, but I don't think they would pass the car without wipers. If that was not an issue, I'd remove the cowl and get a 5" VFN hood, which is what I want anyway.
nathansuttenfield@ccrsi.org
I drive the car on the street, but never in the rain. The only reason I would want to keep them is for inspection purposes, as I don't see how it would pass without them. I already take the car to a "friendly" place, but I don't think they would pass the car without wipers. If that was not an issue, I'd remove the cowl and get a 5" VFN hood, which is what I want anyway.
Will an 85-90 injector be ok on say, a 150 to 200 shot, or would I need bigger? Remember, I'll be adding a Nitrous Outlet Stinger Plate system too.
I see what you're saying about upping the cubes, but honestly, my stock shortblock only has 45k on it and I've already got upgraded ARP rod bolts, so I'm just going to roll with it. I will sell my LS6 intake, rails, injectors, TB and SLP lid and filter, so I'll be able to put that money toward the Super Vic./4150 TB and all the small things I'll need to make the transition. Obviously, I'll need the fuel components too, but I'd need those even if I went bigger cubes, so that's a wash.
I see what you're saying about upping the cubes, but honestly, my stock shortblock only has 45k on it and I've already got upgraded ARP rod bolts, so I'm just going to roll with it. I will sell my LS6 intake, rails, injectors, TB and SLP lid and filter, so I'll be able to put that money toward the Super Vic./4150 TB and all the small things I'll need to make the transition. Obviously, I'll need the fuel components too, but I'd need those even if I went bigger cubes, so that's a wash.
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (27)
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,728
Likes: 13
From: Jefferson City, MO
So 80's would work, but would it hurt to step up to a size bigger? I would think having more injector than you need would be better than just having enough or is it counterproductive to have too much injector?
If you have good injector data you can get larger injectors to idle well enough.
I like this injector calculator because it shows E85 and Pump: http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/flow-calculator
The BSFC is going to be different if your planning on spraying it alot so take into consideration if it is going to be a dry shot from that plate to set the BSFC to nitrous so it will incorporate the extra demand for fuel into the injector size. If the fuel is going to be coming from a stand alone directly to the plate then just size it accordingly for the E85 in n/a form.
I like this injector calculator because it shows E85 and Pump: http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/flow-calculator
The BSFC is going to be different if your planning on spraying it alot so take into consideration if it is going to be a dry shot from that plate to set the BSFC to nitrous so it will incorporate the extra demand for fuel into the injector size. If the fuel is going to be coming from a stand alone directly to the plate then just size it accordingly for the E85 in n/a form.
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (27)
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,728
Likes: 13
From: Jefferson City, MO
If you have good injector data you can get larger injectors to idle well enough.
I like this injector calculator because it shows E85 and Pump: http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/flow-calculator
The BSFC is going to be different if your planning on spraying it alot so take into consideration if it is going to be a dry shot from that plate to set the BSFC to nitrous so it will incorporate the extra demand for fuel into the injector size. If the fuel is going to be coming from a stand alone directly to the plate then just size it accordingly for the E85 in n/a form.
I like this injector calculator because it shows E85 and Pump: http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/flow-calculator
The BSFC is going to be different if your planning on spraying it alot so take into consideration if it is going to be a dry shot from that plate to set the BSFC to nitrous so it will incorporate the extra demand for fuel into the injector size. If the fuel is going to be coming from a stand alone directly to the plate then just size it accordingly for the E85 in n/a form.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (27)
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,728
Likes: 13
From: Jefferson City, MO
Here is a reply I got from Monte Smith regarding my injectors and future setup:
The injectors you have now, will handle over 700hp at a .5 BSFC at 100% duty cycle. So you HAVE enough injector for the motor and if you plan to spray the nitrous wet, that will obviously NOT be injector supplied fuel. So what you have now is fine
Monte
Monte Smith
Motorsports Technical Representative
Nitrous Oxide Systems
The injectors you have now, will handle over 700hp at a .5 BSFC at 100% duty cycle. So you HAVE enough injector for the motor and if you plan to spray the nitrous wet, that will obviously NOT be injector supplied fuel. So what you have now is fine
Monte
Monte Smith
Motorsports Technical Representative
Nitrous Oxide Systems
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (27)
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,728
Likes: 13
From: Jefferson City, MO
That maybe true for pump gas (.5 BSFC) but E85 is (.7 BSFC) 10. stoic vs. 14.7 pump gas you see?
But you are about to run a 13.1 to 14.1 high compression motor with a 200 shot and the last thing you wanna do is be anywhere near 100% duty.
All it takes is one lean spike or N20 spike to occur and you'll be saying bye bye to your motor especially with hyper pistons.
Here is what I use:
BSFC
NA
pump gas=.5
E85= .7
FI/Spray
pump gas .65
E85= .91
Using Monte's assumption of 700BHP:
E85 is .7 that would call for a 77+lb/hr injector NA at 80% and 61+ lb/hr at 100%.
Whatever size you use, just make sure you have that 80% duty cycle cushion. Thats what I would do,but its your car in the end.
But you are about to run a 13.1 to 14.1 high compression motor with a 200 shot and the last thing you wanna do is be anywhere near 100% duty.
All it takes is one lean spike or N20 spike to occur and you'll be saying bye bye to your motor especially with hyper pistons.
Here is what I use:
BSFC
NA
pump gas=.5
E85= .7
FI/Spray
pump gas .65
E85= .91
Using Monte's assumption of 700BHP:
E85 is .7 that would call for a 77+lb/hr injector NA at 80% and 61+ lb/hr at 100%.
Whatever size you use, just make sure you have that 80% duty cycle cushion. Thats what I would do,but its your car in the end.
Bosch EV14 80lbs injectors (@ 42.5psi)... It'd easily cover what you want. And you can get in the EV1 or EV6 size/connector, depending on what you need for the manifold/rail.
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (27)
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,728
Likes: 13
From: Jefferson City, MO
Short
medium
Tall
Nate will get you hooked up. I went with the LS2 (Medium length) because I used an OEM LS2 rail on my FAST 102. Worked flawlessly. I just had FIC send the EV6 to EV1 connectors so they'd be PnP in the stock wiring harness.
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (27)
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,728
Likes: 13
From: Jefferson City, MO
So connectors can be ordered to make pretty much any injector compatable with the LS2 rails? If I go the FAST 102/102 route, sounds like the best option is to switch over to the LS2 rails. Just want to make sure my current injectors (Accel 44lb/hr) will work. Part number would be great too if you have it.
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (27)
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,728
Likes: 13
From: Jefferson City, MO
Ok, since i found a guy who will inspect and pass my car, I'm for sure going the Super Victor/4150 TB route. I found a cam that I think will work very well. It is 236/248 .631/.631 111 LSA. Now the question is, will it clear my heads. My cam right now is 227/235 110 LSA and I have .069" intake clearance and .101 exhaust clearance. Here is something interesting that a guy posted in a thread I made over on another forum when I asked if that cam would clear: What do you guys think?
Fairly straight forward ....
Find your current cams tdc # on the ICL, multiply by the rocker ratio.
Now take the proposed new cams tdc # on the ICL, multiply by rocker ratio.
Subtract the difference between too. ......walla, new ptv number.....since you already know your current ptv.
This is just an example. .....
current 227 lobe on a 108 ICL @ tdc = 0.070" x 1.7 = 0.119".....this means your intake valve is open 0.119" at the nearest point in the revolution. ..aka; tdc.
New cam lobe 236, on a 106 ICL @ tdc = 0.089" x 1.7 = 0.151"
So.......0.119" minus 0.151" = 0.32"
So, you have 0.069" minus 0.032" = 0.037" of ptv with new 236 lobe on a 108 ICL.
Remember this ^^^^ is just an example.
You just need to find out what lobe family your current cam is and what your new one will be. Also, the same math will figure the exhaust lobe ptv too.
Fairly straight forward ....
Find your current cams tdc # on the ICL, multiply by the rocker ratio.
Now take the proposed new cams tdc # on the ICL, multiply by rocker ratio.
Subtract the difference between too. ......walla, new ptv number.....since you already know your current ptv.
This is just an example. .....
current 227 lobe on a 108 ICL @ tdc = 0.070" x 1.7 = 0.119".....this means your intake valve is open 0.119" at the nearest point in the revolution. ..aka; tdc.
New cam lobe 236, on a 106 ICL @ tdc = 0.089" x 1.7 = 0.151"
So.......0.119" minus 0.151" = 0.32"
So, you have 0.069" minus 0.032" = 0.037" of ptv with new 236 lobe on a 108 ICL.
Remember this ^^^^ is just an example.
You just need to find out what lobe family your current cam is and what your new one will be. Also, the same math will figure the exhaust lobe ptv too.