http://www.vincihighperformance.com/...ARPARENT2.HTML test 4 was the converter, shocks and 3.42 gears. test 5 was cam and tuning only. that's the way vinci designs cams. for lots of low mid range torque instead of peak horsepower. they now have a serious traction problem with the car. i was there with the wife's car doing some testing with them. even with the BFG 315/30-18 drag radial it wouldn't hook up.

 

Nuzee, we took a typical popular 224/224 585/585 114 lsa camshaft and installed into a basically stock A4 Z28 (has only an air intake and catback exhaust) to simulate the information and advice being shared over the web. Incidentally we would never do this to a client's car. I personally drove the car at great length before and after. It had a steak and shake idle (after serious tuning) and that was pretty much the highlights of the cam. Driveability was terrible, felt like a slug on the low end and only started to show signs of life after 4000 rpm. Partial throttle response (stop and go driving) was poor and disappointing. If the car had heads with compression, headers, gears and a real loose converter it would probably be acceptable. In my opinion this cam is not a viable cam only option. For driveability and streetlight to streetlight performance my choice would be the ASP-KICKER camshaft, which incidentally was designed for just this application.

 

...then that's just plain awesome. That's all I'm really after.

As a fellow truck-member said, a cam like that should produce some great ET's in the trucks.

Was the accelerated lift rockers used in this 'ultra torque series camshaft package'? (I'm still a little fuzzy on that side of things)

 

Marc, on repeated tests, VHP springs are not losing any strength, so I would pull one pair after 30,000 miles and load check them. It is not necessary to use the rocker arms and it will not adversely affect the performance of the cam. We do however, recommend the use of our rocker arm kit. Very simply put, it has always been our practice to match components for strength, reliability and performance.

 

Thanks a lot Joe, I'll be calling you in the near future.

Edit: Just wanted to say thank for bearing with me. I've always been the skeptical type, and I'm just trying to put to rest any doubts of mine.

 

Marc, good question. We generally test one product at a time and then test combinations in order to come up with the ideal package. In this case, we have not installed the rocker arm package yet. We need to bring the 60 foot time down first. Seriously, we generally pick up another 18-20 horsepower with matching torque and we are already have traction issues.

 

Highgear
That hi-lift 212/218 was THE cam choice for me for sometime. But then I stumbled across CompCams 206/212 112 lsa. Although it simulates a tad less horsepower up top than the 212/218, it shifts more power down low. Since you got a higher stall converter, that low end boost is not that critical. So, that cam sounds like a winner for your setup. Your comments are always appreciated! Aloha

Silversurfer
Thanks for the tip on Jersy-TA! Encouraging to hear about someone hitting 12.0s with stock TC. Doing headers first is solid advice, especially if I were to select a cam that makes its power at higher rpms. But I'm very curious to see the effects of the small cam with stock manifolds first. Maybe I can produce some useful information for guys not wanting to do headers. Plus, stainless steel headers are not in this year's budget, LOL.

Nitrous, too tempting to step it up. I want to get some of the Hawaii guys off the bottle and run NA against me. They'll probably still kick the crap out of me, but it should be closer. Anyway, thanks for your advice!

 

Joe
Thank you for the description above. What is the idle like on the ASP Kicker @ 650 rpm? Will tuning/adjustment be necessary? A steady-rpm choppy-idle I don't mind. An unsteady lopey idle that seems to be rpm hunting is not desirable. What is the "Drive Inn" idle sound?

Please clarify if that test #5 dyno on your website included the cumulative effects of the 2800 stall converter and all of the other mods in tests #2, 3, & 4. Thank you very much for your replies.

 

yes test #5 is test #4 plus the cam. test #5 shows what happens when installing the 047 cam and tuning it with those parts. which most people will already have ( airlid, filter, catback, headers,etc...)

 

Ok, question then: my buddy was talking about TC's multiplying torque. Is this true? He said something about flashing a TC on the dyno and it peaking torque numbers. What kind of torque curve would I see in my M6? I really know nothing about auto trannies so his comment kinda threw me for a loop.

Thanks!

 

I wouldn't go with anything less than 212/212, but my first cam was 218/218 114 +2 on XE lobes. Minimal tuning used. The Ls1 generally needs the intake help, especially if you are going to put headers on.

FWIW,
1) To me the stock converter feels sloppy having come from an M5 in my previous cars. Once you realize the stock conveter is a bit sloppy, a 2800 - 3200 stall feels better than stock. Sure its a bit looser, but once you get into the throttle a bit, it feels better than stock.
2) The best way to get the car to feel responsive at low speeds is to skip the cam and buy LS1 Edit. Raise the mph your part throttle shift points by 15 - 20% and the car will feel much more responsive. It reduces some of the converter rpm differential and will keep the mechanical advantage of the lower gears for a little longer. It will also kill some loosenesss of a higher stall converter. You can then step up to 220/220 112 cam (or larger) and have no drivability issues since you'll have Edit to take care of them.

 

Going back to this comment!
I wouldn't have done that either. Could be an interesting run with the variables; if I may, how hard was that to do? Around without a converter I mean, there are so many benchmarks how can you tell which one is your impression. Would I be able to find a way around the slugness and will it still spin the tires at will? Has it gone up or down off idle? I'm sure top end is fine.

 

If you want to stay with the stock manifolds, as do I with my 02 Z, then an LS6 cam or the LPE GT2-3 cam would be great choices. Not gonna lose any torque with the LS6, it's cheap and it won't require much if any tuning. Might gain some torque with the GT2-3, should get it tuned, but it's a proven performer. There are getting to be way too many cam choices these days. That's good and bad.

 

There is a soundclip up of the asp-kicker on the VHP cam page.

 

I know I'm pulling this back up from the grave... but I installed a TR220 112 in my truck last weekend.

It runs good, but it's definitely lacking way down low. It's not completely "fall on your face" dead, but it just doesn't have the torque to pull up hills like the stock cam did.

This may be the fact that I'm not running headers. I'm not certain. I've got the "good" late model manifolds on my truck.

Tuning is a pain in the neck. It doesn't need a tune to be driveable, it needs a tune to get the most out of it. I think I'm having problems because nobody out there is running a 220 cam on a 112 lsa in a 5300lb truck on a stock converter and manifolds. I'm getting a ton of KR at low rpm's, and I can't seem to get rid of it. I don't want to detune the knock sensors.

Don't get me wrong, the cam pulls nice up top, but that's not my driving style. I like low rpm and midrange torque. I don't want to feel as though I'm beating on the truck to get power out of the motor.

I think I'm going to pick up a 206/212 or the 'kicker.

 

Marc
I just installed a CompCams 206/212 112 lsa cam this past weekend. On a 5.7, there is definately more torque right from idle. I just need to feather the throttle to start moving. I too am using the stock torque converter.

Funny that you mention KR..... I suspect that I am getting some to when I aggresively step on the throttle from low rpms. I will be able to do a scan for KR this weekend. Too high a cylinder pressure and the resultant knock was my number one fear with using a torquey cam. Because of this I installed the cam 2 degrees retarded. Even retarded the off-idle torque increase is noticeable.

Also, there is a lite chop at the stock 600rpm idle & a nice rumble in the exhaust note. At 700 rpm the idle smoothens out but I don't want to mess with tuning so I'll live with a little chop.

 

Nice! I'm glad you went with that cam and it's working out for you. I like that you used the word "definitely". When I try to describe the added power of the cam in my truck, I have a hard time saying that with my current setup. It's too inconsistant. I can tell you though, I'm *THIS* close to ordering one of the two I mentioned. I don't have the patience for any of the obstacles I'm running into.

I'm going to fool with the tuning and try to get rid of this KR as much as I can for the time being. I suspect the KR is false, and caused by something in the valvetrain. Most of my KR occurs between 900 and 2,000rpm, when I get into the throttle too quick from a dead stop, or if I lug the motor or accelerate at anything more than a "gingerly" pace. In this area the engine feels flat and lazy, so I don't suspect that it's a cylinder pressure issue - especially with stock manifolds. (am I wrong there?)

Where did you buy the cam? The cheapest I see it around for is the usuall $400.

I put a soundclip up of my cam in the multimedia section. Actually here is the link. It's recorded very quiet, so you have to turn the volume up. It sounds nice, but that sound isn't worth these other drawbacks right now. What Joe said about that "common 224 cam in the ls1 test" sure is making sense right now.

I'm actually surprised your cam makes a little noise. I thought the duration would have kept it tame. I like that though.

Do you get much, or any valvetrain noise with that cam? I wouldn't think you would.

I installed the 918's and ran them in my truck for about a day and a half before the cam went in. They were as quiet as stock. (truck ran good too, but it could have been having a good day). Now with the cam in, I have a lot of sewing machine noise, and a rather quiet (but very noticeable) tapping noise.

Also wanted to note, I don't want to be taken as bad-mouthing the TR220. That's definitely not what I want to do. I just want to point out that I think I made a poor choice in cam specs for my mods, needs, and driving style.

 

has anyone here considered this thread??

 

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that the knock is false. The low rpm predetonation is classic "too much cylinder pressure".

I had some credit with a non site-sponsor that carried CompCams products .... so that is why I went with the CompCams instead of the Vinci.

No noise. I too am using the 918s. No flames please, but I think the ramp rates on the lowly 206/212 515/522 112 cam is aggressive enough, edging on a bit too much for street applications. When your valvetrain starts to make noise, that means TO ME that something is being compromised.... usually more wear & tear for that extra performance. Sure the edgier cam will make more power or give you a better idle or whatever..... but at the cost of something wearing in your valvetrain.

I think the ASP-kicker cam would be another great choice for you. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do!!

 

Theres no way I am going to read all those pages of posts on cam opinions, so if somebody said this, oh well. Anyways, the Hotcam would be much better than that cam. If you want really nice streetability go with the later LS6 cam, it will give you some good top end gains without going crazy.