If you had $3500 for a shortblock...
Have to have alum block. Find a worn out 5.3 all day. Resleeve and there u go.
Well that's with a forged crank I'm sure but still probably the same principle. Also, you already have your block right? If so that's -600 that you have to spend. I'm basically buying the entire short block. I could possibly use the LS1 that's in my car now, but I'd have to take it to a shop, have them tear it down and figure out if its use able, and if its not then I'm out for labor, so might as well go ahead and start new.
I don't need a new crank, and honestly I'm not even sure if I really need forged rods/pistons. I'm just building a daily H/C car that might see the bottle years down the road, and sparingly if so. If a stock LS1 can take a 150 shot all day, then should I really need a forged bottom? I'd probably spin to 6800-7000 so I guess its good insurance to have forged rods/pistons.
I don't need a new crank, and honestly I'm not even sure if I really need forged rods/pistons. I'm just building a daily H/C car that might see the bottle years down the road, and sparingly if so. If a stock LS1 can take a 150 shot all day, then should I really need a forged bottom? I'd probably spin to 6800-7000 so I guess its good insurance to have forged rods/pistons.
And you seem to have the block too, which can help.
Yes it will be easier to just buy new and go that route, but you'll end up spending more money than just rebuilding your own. And you don't have to do all that, if you're forging the motor you basically just bring them the block and crank and have them put in the rest of the forged goodies (regardless of what condition the rest of the parts are in as you won't be reusing them anyhow).
"All day" is a very vague term. Can you get away with spraying 150 on the stock engine? Sure. But it will be nowhere near as reliable as a forged unit. And 7000rpm on the stock rods/bolts is not going to last long especially if spraying.
Figure that if you're going to spend all that money and effort to take the motor out you might as well build it to last. Why do all that work to only put back the same stock engine back in? Why take the chance of having to do this all over again in a year after you inevitably pop another stock rotating assembly?
Honestly just figured it was a cheap way to get cubes without a stroker crank so why not? But I rarely see 376 and other 4.065 bore combos, is it bad for durability? What's wrong with it? If I went that route, with my goals and cost restrictions, I could just use a LS3 bottom end and basically have an iron ls3. I haven't seen any prices for ls3 parts though so I'm not sure if the cost would be worth it to ditch forged pistons/rods.. Are they even neccesary at my power goals?
If so ill stick with a 4.03 and do a 370.
With that bore, what heads would you prefer to run? I'm familiar with small bore stuff, but with LS3 heads being used on the bigger bore motors I'm not really sure what direction to go in?
As for cost, it hasn't really been answered but is it cheaper to take parts to get them machined and assembled or just get a short block from someone like TMS? I've never had to have anything machined so I'm clueless to costs.
If so ill stick with a 4.03 and do a 370.
With that bore, what heads would you prefer to run? I'm familiar with small bore stuff, but with LS3 heads being used on the bigger bore motors I'm not really sure what direction to go in?
As for cost, it hasn't really been answered but is it cheaper to take parts to get them machined and assembled or just get a short block from someone like TMS? I've never had to have anything machined so I'm clueless to costs.
You’re not going to take a stock block out that far...unless like mentioned...spending half your budget sleeving it. This is why you also don’t see these combos, it’s not feasible for most people.
We offer an Iron 370CI for pretty dang cheap with a new crank, PM for info. We have a sale going on in the Vendor section for a few short blocks as well that are within your budget.
Stock L92 heads can make big power and are very affordable, you can find them used dirt cheap. On a 408 you can make 600+HP with out of the box parts.
In regards to you doing the work yourself and saving $...it depends...due to my purchasing power, most people can’t build a short block for what I sell them at...then it comes down to do you trust yourself to build it.
That's going to take up most if not all of his budget JUST on the block itself. Did you miss the part where he said he only had $3500 for the whole thing?
No it's with a remanufactured GM crank for that price.
And you seem to have the block too, which can help.
Yes it will be easier to just buy new and go that route, but you'll end up spending more money than just rebuilding your own. And you don't have to do all that, if you're forging the motor you basically just bring them the block and crank and have them put in the rest of the forged goodies (regardless of what condition the rest of the parts are in as you won't be reusing them anyhow).
"All day" is a very vague term. Can you get away with spraying 150 on the stock engine? Sure. But it will be nowhere near as reliable as a forged unit. And 7000rpm on the stock rods/bolts is not going to last long especially if spraying.
Figure that if you're going to spend all that money and effort to take the motor out you might as well build it to last. Why do all that work to only put back the same stock engine back in? Why take the chance of having to do this all over again in a year after you inevitably pop another stock rotating assembly?
You’re not going to take a stock block out that far...unless like mentioned...spending half your budget sleeving it. This is why you also don’t see these combos, it’s not feasible for most people.
We offer an Iron 370CI for pretty dang cheap with a new crank, PM for info. We have a sale going on in the Vendor section for a few short blocks as well that are within your budget.
Stock L92 heads can make big power and are very affordable, you can find them used dirt cheap. On a 408 you can make 600+HP with out of the box parts.
In regards to you doing the work yourself and saving $...it depends...due to my purchasing power, most people can’t build a short block for what I sell them at...then it comes down to do you trust yourself to build it.
Very good points, I still think I'll go iron block, just because it opens up the bore and head capabilities. Would I be happy with a 347? Honestly yea. But I'd be happier with a 370, I think at this point that's the route I'm going to take. At the end of the day my wallet is going to make that decision. Im definitely forging now though, with the way i drive the car it would be well worth the peace of mind. Would a spun rod bearing cause any issue that would require a new crank?
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 651
Likes: 10
From: North Carolina
What would you build? I was thinking of going LQ4/9 with a 4.065 bore, hypereutectic pistons, stock rods and crank for a 376.. But would it be more worth it to just have a iron 346 with forged pistons? Not looking to spray any more than 150 and that would be well down the road and only every once in a while.. Mainly an N/A daily driver street car, looking to get the most power N/A for my money. What would you build? Durability and $ is an issue, so stock crank is neccesary.
Is an .065" overbore advisable in an LQ4/LQ9 block ?
Spend another $350 here . . . All FORGED and no Machining or Assembly charges
http://texas-speed.com/p-588-tsp-408...ort-block.aspx
OR , if you want the Stock Stroke . . .
http://texas-speed.com/p-593-tsp-370...ort-block.aspx
Spend another $350 here
And if he's already at $4500 why not spend another $400 on a 416? If he's already at $4900, why not spend another $400 on a 427? That stuff easily adds up, and if he's on a strict budget it's not really advisable to just "spend another $xxx).
Another thing with pre-built blocks that increase price is shipping and crate costs. That will add up another $6-700 easily to the total. So now he's looking at $4500 for the block.
And if he's already at $4500 why not spend another $400 on a 416? If he's already at $4900, why not spend another $400 on a 427? That stuff easily adds up, and if he's on a strict budget it's not really advisable to just "spend another $xxx).
And if he's already at $4500 why not spend another $400 on a 416? If he's already at $4900, why not spend another $400 on a 427? That stuff easily adds up, and if he's on a strict budget it's not really advisable to just "spend another $xxx).
We do not charge for freight or crating.
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 651
Likes: 10
From: North Carolina
****, yea that does win lol.
I figure a total budget engine wise of around 7-8k, couldn't get a 408 anywhere else for that price. Might be hearing from me in the fall when the money is saved up.
Durability wise, what are 408s like with the 4" stroke? How many miles could I realistically put on it before thinking about a rebuild?
I figure a total budget engine wise of around 7-8k, couldn't get a 408 anywhere else for that price. Might be hearing from me in the fall when the money is saved up.
Durability wise, what are 408s like with the 4" stroke? How many miles could I realistically put on it before thinking about a rebuild?
****, yea that does win lol.
I figure a total budget engine wise of around 7-8k, couldn't get a 408 anywhere else for that price. Might be hearing from me in the fall when the money is saved up.
Durability wise, what are 408s like with the 4" stroke? How many miles could I realistically put on it before thinking about a rebuild?
I figure a total budget engine wise of around 7-8k, couldn't get a 408 anywhere else for that price. Might be hearing from me in the fall when the money is saved up.
Durability wise, what are 408s like with the 4" stroke? How many miles could I realistically put on it before thinking about a rebuild?
The 4" stroke is no less reliable as long as the piston is designed for the LS sleeve and 4" stroke so it doesn't come out of the bottom of the sleeve (which causes a rocking at BDC, which also contributes to piston wear).
Personally, I'd run the 2618 and not think twice about it. Any performance engine isn't going to last much more than 50k miles before it needs a refresh anyway. Especially if you drive it like intended. I wouldn't run valve springs that long or an aftermarket cam/valves/etc. All need to be checked every 6-10k miles and replaced as needed.
30-60k depending on how you beat on it. And it has more to do with the rings and the pistons. The 2618 is less durable in terms of dealing with cold starts vs 4032 or hypereutectic and the ringlands wear down until they come up to operating temp (where they expand - they have a much larger piston to wall clearance than the others because of the thermal expansion). But they are much stronger and resist shattering much better. Some guys get a lot more than 30k, others get around 30k on them.
The 4" stroke is no less reliable as long as the piston is designed for the LS sleeve and 4" stroke so it doesn't come out of the bottom of the sleeve (which causes a rocking at BDC, which also contributes to piston wear).
Personally, I'd run the 2618 and not think twice about it. Any performance engine isn't going to last much more than 50k miles before it needs a refresh anyway. Especially if you drive it like intended. I wouldn't run valve springs that long or an aftermarket cam/valves/etc. All need to be checked every 6-10k miles and replaced as needed.
Personally, I'd run the 2618 and not think twice about it. Any performance engine isn't going to last much more than 50k miles before it needs a refresh anyway. Especially if you drive it like intended. I wouldn't run valve springs that long or an aftermarket cam/valves/etc. All need to be checked every 6-10k miles and replaced as needed.
That is unless the guy doesn't mind pulling out his engine for a refresh every few years.
Oh and you can't compare valvespring maintenance to rotating assembly maintenance, they don't even compare in the level of effort needed to do each.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,324
Likes: 6
From: Marengo, Ia
I've searched for this info not to long ago and I couldn't find much. I would bet that there are a lot of people out there that find out the life span of a 2618 piston when there motor starts using oil at 40k. It's not something I'd want in a car that see's a lot of street miles that might see some spray some day.
Yea my original plan was to do 4032s, I with reliability/durability/life span being a top priority, I feel it fits me better. 150 shot will probably be the most it will see, maybe a 200 at the track to see if it'll run a 9.
I'm looking at ATKs offerings, that 408 price is no joke especially without shipping, I think I might just go that route. With my pay raise I can just hold off an extra month and it'll cover the extra costs..
My LS1 still had stock manifolds when it died, how necessary will it be to go full exhaust/intake? If I do I'll probably just go TSP 1 7/8s and their true duals, or a dumped 4" Y-Pipe. Unless I'd be leaving a ton of power on the table from not going 2" primaries. Intake, I'm not going FAST, don't have that kind of money, so I'll either go LS6 or a Vic JR.
What's the general consensus on heads? Cathedral vs rectangle is the most back and forth thing I've seen debated ls engine wise.. Remember this is a budget operation.
I'm leaning towards a big port cathedral, from what I see cam selection on a rectangle is hit and miss. Also heard cams are hit or miss. Power and wise I'm wanting some that that pulls like a freight train above 4000 till 7000. My stall will be close to a 4700 with this motor in front of it, so getting a combo that likes to rev will be of some importance. What's a safe amount to rev a fully forged short block? 7500 should be a cake walk right?
I'm looking at ATKs offerings, that 408 price is no joke especially without shipping, I think I might just go that route. With my pay raise I can just hold off an extra month and it'll cover the extra costs..
My LS1 still had stock manifolds when it died, how necessary will it be to go full exhaust/intake? If I do I'll probably just go TSP 1 7/8s and their true duals, or a dumped 4" Y-Pipe. Unless I'd be leaving a ton of power on the table from not going 2" primaries. Intake, I'm not going FAST, don't have that kind of money, so I'll either go LS6 or a Vic JR.
What's the general consensus on heads? Cathedral vs rectangle is the most back and forth thing I've seen debated ls engine wise.. Remember this is a budget operation.
I'm leaning towards a big port cathedral, from what I see cam selection on a rectangle is hit and miss. Also heard cams are hit or miss. Power and wise I'm wanting some that that pulls like a freight train above 4000 till 7000. My stall will be close to a 4700 with this motor in front of it, so getting a combo that likes to rev will be of some importance. What's a safe amount to rev a fully forged short block? 7500 should be a cake walk right?
I've searched for this info not to long ago and I couldn't find much. I would bet that there are a lot of people out there that find out the life span of a 2618 piston when there motor starts using oil at 40k. It's not something I'd want in a car that see's a lot of street miles that might see some spray some day.
Nothing else wears out substantialy quickly?
How long will a stock 4L60E last behind a ~450rwhp 370/408?