thinking of going with a bigger cam.
You do realize that even the top notch really expensive heads are only going to give you maybe 20-30 hp over what you have now right? Assuming your 241's or 243's are done up well
If he had quality CNC'd 243s I would agree with you. Given these are 241s and who knows what kind of port job was done I'd steer towards bigger gains than that with a nice TF225 or something along those lines.
If you are only getting 400rwhp then something is up. Maybe the dyno is reading low or maybe some part of the setup in the car is crap or the headwork is crap.
At this point good heads like 243s would be money much better spent than a bigger cam.
Heads are arguably the most important part in making power, but too often folks fixate on cam and displacement.
At this point good heads like 243s would be money much better spent than a bigger cam.
Heads are arguably the most important part in making power, but too often folks fixate on cam and displacement.
He's going to get alot more than 20-30 with the right heads over those "hand done" 241s he has now. And it's all over power, not just up top.
If he had quality CNC'd 243s I would agree with you. Given these are 241s and who knows what kind of port job was done I'd steer towards bigger gains than that with a nice TF225 or something along those lines.
If he had quality CNC'd 243s I would agree with you. Given these are 241s and who knows what kind of port job was done I'd steer towards bigger gains than that with a nice TF225 or something along those lines.
I agree if you want more hp that heads are the only way to go. A set of CNC'd 243's will probably pick up at least a solid 30whp over what you have now and a set of aftermarket castings like tickflows or afr will be even more. Since you dont have a set of 243's to be worked they will cost 400 pljus the 1k cnc job. at almost 1400 without springs I would strongly just look for a set of aftermarket heads
Aftermarket heads come with additional costs like adding PM guides or going to roller rockers that compromise valvetrain stability, so before someone goes a route like that they need a MUCH better understanding than "ported stock are going to be $1k plus springs, aftermarket aren't much more."
Besides aftermarket stuff does not actually do much better than ported GM stuff if you start with the right casting and use a truly good shop and some guys have documented making MORE with ported GM stuff.
I strongly suspect the port job on the OPs 241s is just garbage, anyone can wave a grinder around, doesn't mean just anyone can make a set of heads good much less great.
Besides aftermarket stuff does not actually do much better than ported GM stuff if you start with the right casting and use a truly good shop and some guys have documented making MORE with ported GM stuff.
I strongly suspect the port job on the OPs 241s is just garbage, anyone can wave a grinder around, doesn't mean just anyone can make a set of heads good much less great.
While this is true most aftermarket heads can be ordered with the correct guides for little to no money.
And fwiw I was talking about used castings you can find used trick flows or afr's in the classifieds for around the same price as it would cost to buy and send your 243 heads to TEA or AI. Most of which will come with the correct guides as people do like to use stock rockers. I would much rather go this route even if it was a couple hundred more to have a better head to start with and always have porting room for later.
And fwiw I was talking about used castings you can find used trick flows or afr's in the classifieds for around the same price as it would cost to buy and send your 243 heads to TEA or AI. Most of which will come with the correct guides as people do like to use stock rockers. I would much rather go this route even if it was a couple hundred more to have a better head to start with and always have porting room for later.
Aftermarket heads come with additional costs like adding PM guides or going to roller rockers that compromise valvetrain stability, so before someone goes a route like that they need a MUCH better understanding than "ported stock are going to be $1k plus springs, aftermarket aren't much more."
Besides aftermarket stuff does not actually do much better than ported GM stuff if you start with the right casting and use a truly good shop and some guys have documented making MORE with ported GM stuff.
I strongly suspect the port job on the OPs 241s is just garbage, anyone can wave a grinder around, doesn't mean just anyone can make a set of heads good much less great.
Besides aftermarket stuff does not actually do much better than ported GM stuff if you start with the right casting and use a truly good shop and some guys have documented making MORE with ported GM stuff.
I strongly suspect the port job on the OPs 241s is just garbage, anyone can wave a grinder around, doesn't mean just anyone can make a set of heads good much less great.
If the OP can't chip off 3 grand for some CNC heads;springs;trunion upgrade;FAST/TB; etc......then the best bet for him might just be to find a low mileage set of 243s off the Vette Forums for 4-5 hundred range. Have a machine shop do a valve job and wack .030" off the deck (approx 250 bucks)
Tooley spring kit for 250 with some GM gaskets and bolts (125)/push rods(100) and a retune for another 2-300. For roughly fifteen hundred bucks he'll most likely max out his injectors in the neighborhood of 425 rwhp and the added compression will pump up the torque quite a bit in the lower rpms. Obviously still way more expensive than just a cam swap but as you stated the heads are just so important and his pics fall just short of impressive to the naked eye.
While this is true most aftermarket heads can be ordered with the correct guides for little to no money.
And fwiw I was talking about used castings you can find used trick flows or afr's in the classifieds for around the same price as it would cost to buy and send your 243 heads to TEA or AI. Most of which will come with the correct guides as people do like to use stock rockers. I would much rather go this route even if it was a couple hundred more to have a better head to start with and always have porting room for later.
And fwiw I was talking about used castings you can find used trick flows or afr's in the classifieds for around the same price as it would cost to buy and send your 243 heads to TEA or AI. Most of which will come with the correct guides as people do like to use stock rockers. I would much rather go this route even if it was a couple hundred more to have a better head to start with and always have porting room for later.
Please give us a detailed explaination of how aftermarket castings are "a better head to start with"exactly what about them makes them better and how does this translate to a street car with mild stall and gears and just an LS6 intake.
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Verdad Gallardo You're going to argue that a set of AI 243's are better than a set of AFR 210's or Trick Flow 215's? Dynos show them to make pretty much the same peak with a tad better midrange. By explain how the aftermarket heads are better, I assume you mean that they will make similar power than a hogged out set of 243's unported; then when ported will make more especially in the midrange...
243's will make very good power I'm just stating that for the same price or a little more the OP can get a used set of aftermarket heads and have a tad better head to start off with plenty of room to grow. AFR's will have higher port velocity at lower lift since they have a 6cc smaller runner than STOCK 243's and a different combustion chamber. This will make more midrange and have better tip in throttle response all while providing more PTV clearance. This in turn would help with some of the torque loss from a cam that large and if the op did want to go bigger on the cam would help it not smack the valves. As the ls6 intake goes, that will be a bottle neck with any good set of heads and since both of these are going to make similar power either set of heads needs a fast to really shine. so here i consider that sort of a moot point as again the aftermarket heads will show in the midrange.
243's will make very good power I'm just stating that for the same price or a little more the OP can get a used set of aftermarket heads and have a tad better head to start off with plenty of room to grow. AFR's will have higher port velocity at lower lift since they have a 6cc smaller runner than STOCK 243's and a different combustion chamber. This will make more midrange and have better tip in throttle response all while providing more PTV clearance. This in turn would help with some of the torque loss from a cam that large and if the op did want to go bigger on the cam would help it not smack the valves. As the ls6 intake goes, that will be a bottle neck with any good set of heads and since both of these are going to make similar power either set of heads needs a fast to really shine. so here i consider that sort of a moot point as again the aftermarket heads will show in the midrange.
Last edited by redbird555; May 10, 2014 at 03:11 PM.
The vast gains of aftermarket stuff exists mostly in imagination then sometimes on the dyno but least so on the track, the only real measure of performance.
If going max effort and need a thick casting to port or need something with a big port an more room to cut then it starts to make sense.
A stock cube 3600stall 3.73 setup, it is just extra money spent to impress those who think speed comes from a catalog.
If going max effort and need a thick casting to port or need something with a big port an more room to cut then it starts to make sense.
A stock cube 3600stall 3.73 setup, it is just extra money spent to impress those who think speed comes from a catalog.
IMO there is really no right or wrong answer here...it's really just all a matter of preference or opinion. For instance i'd personally rather spend $1200 on a set of decent heads that make within 20-30 hp of those fancy $2500 high end heads, and for the extra $1200 do a better intake, or better yet a nice nitrous system, and totally blow those high dollar heads out of the water...all for the same price 
Just be careful when buying used heads, especially used AFR heads. Most tend to be missing the material between the intake and exhaust valve, which can be a problem. Also, guides and things of that natjre may need to be replaced, so once it's all said and done, you may be in it more than a new set of heads.
agreed always investigate what you buy especially when it comes to engine parts. if you shop around the price for the two can be very competitive ONLY because you dont have a set of 243's already. In my case since I already have 243's its much cheaper to just have them ported. but in your case not so much its really just a matter of opinion
Seems with the amazing CNC. programs out there for the 243/799, and even the 241 heads, they are pretty much on par with most of the aftermarket castings. One thing that the stock heads will never have is the thicker head decks, but not everyone makes enough power to really need them.
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Yes but I also want a faster street car mike. With out using the nitrous. I only have 1100 saved up but im about to buy a nitrous kit so thats why i said i couldn't afford one
