Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

OP, the overall combination of parts is going to trump what kind of cam lobes are used. A "magical" cam with "special" cam lobes with **** parts around it will not perform as well as a shelf cam with the right surrounding parts. Just something to think about.

RonSSNova

iTrader: (3)

I set my valve train up very carefully.
I spoke to my builder about the noise, in fact he has heard it.
He feels that a critical aspect is base circle runout on the cam.

Given that Comp ground mine, it wasn't checked by me. EPS either as I didn't opt for that cost.

Perhaps one reason EPS switched suppliers?

Then there are the LS7 lifters. As well as roller rockers. So more than a few possible sources of noise right?

I've not heard an LS with a cam that is anywhere near silent.

FWIW. Guys with hot rod Hyd roller cam small and big blocks have the same noise complaints. Even with the Morel lifters. And they can vary preload in a few minutes.

Ron

Kip Fabre

The base circle will cause the engine to idle worse than normal for that size cam unless the base circle is so far out the lifter can't find a home then it will not idle at all.The pushrod preload should not make any difference weather it's .02 or .120 preload. The noise comes from a aggressive lobe design right off of the base circle not the preload or pushrod length. When you have an aggressive lobe the higher spring rates will even make noise worse. With a good lobe design you should not have any noise. I have a solid roller in my car and there is no lifter or valve noise.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

That is until Geoff put an EPS 222/226 115 cam in a crate LS6 with headers and made 430rwhp. But yes, **** parts won't help. In many cases, just using stock parts with a good cam can get you want you want.

And lobes can be quite a bit of difference in power. The numbers @ .050" are not a good way to compare cams. LSK lobes from comp will outpower XE lobes. Maybe by 10-15rwhp at the same duration/CR. But what's the trade-off? Longevity? Stability?

Custom cams are the way to go once you start upping compression, changing your displacement, and running different options than stock, like carb-type intakes.

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

I agree with you that lobes can make a big difference in certain applications. In my opinion, Ed Curtis at Flowtech Induction is the cam master. He has a lot of different proprietary cam lobes with multiple different cam grinders and his cams have been proven to work. You have to be pretty damn knowledgeable in order to even begin to design a cam lobe. I've seen his little cams make more power than way bigger cams and have a much better torque curve to boot. I'm not saying Geoff isn't as smart or as good as Ed, but in my opinion, Ed is the man. I think Martin Smallwood is headed in that direction too. With more years of experience and more R&D, he'll be even better than he already is.

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

Hopefully Geoff will chime in here and school us a bit

redbird555

iTrader: (14)

I wouldn't go as far as to say anyone is the cam master. Ed is awesome but to say he is in fact the "man" when none of us have a shred of a clue how to design a cam lobe is blind leading the blind. The point of the matter is Ed, Geoff, Martin, Alan Futral or whoever are all masters of the trade and to say one of xxxx cams makes more power than xxxx is a pretty hard pill to swallow due to dyno and location difference not to mention build tolerances. All the cams make great power and you cant go wrong with any builder, in the end the hp difference will be minimal. Speak to any of these guys and the knowledge they possess is greater than anything we can comprehend so how we tell who is really "better." lol

To the op, bottom line is yes eps lobes are better than xer simple fact. Any one of the cam companies wont steer you wrong. If you like eps then thats a great choice, if you like Alan then great go with futral etc..

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

IMO, the XER lobes are still popular because the lift is fairly reasonable and with their aggressive ramp rate they make good power. Otherwise, if you want to be "as easy on my valve train as possible" then those are NOT the lobes you want. I would definitely go with the EPS lobes over the XER lobes, but you will still have to sacrifice some power if you want to substantially increase your valvetrain life by going with an even softer ramp rate like the Cam Motion lobes have. I'd consider going with the Cam Motion lobes which have about a ramp rate of 55, and probably the widest range of duration/lift combinations available anywhere.
http://www.cammotion.com/lobe-list.php

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

Which is why the statement was prefaced with "In my opinion..."

In my opinion there's about 3 people I'd ever get a cam from. One is already known, and they other two aren't hard to figure out

redbird555

iTrader: (14)

wasnt directed at you whigham more so at rise of the phoenix but I agree any one of the aforementioned people are great cam gurus

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Dave's point was that I said "in my opinion", which I have a right to, just as you do as well. I didn't make the blanket statement that he is the best. In my opinion he is, but by no means do I think there aren't others out there who can get the job done.

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

I was just joshin ya man! I'm biased, lol.

The folks that have replied already are all great.

I like Martin, Ed, Kip, and Geoff a lot. VERY VERY helpful guys, and won't push anything to you that doesn't meet your goals or requirements. That means a lot to me as a customer.

They also aren't afraid to tell you when your goals simply aren't realistic

BKsNHRA

iTrader: (4)

As far as preload goes. Yes I have tried many different preloads. This engine is just noisy and has been since it was new. Its the engine that came in the car. 92k mile ls1.

I should note that I just did a install not long ago with a eps 230-246 cam in a iron 6.0 and Johnson lifter and the thing sounds beautiful. No odd noises at all like my ls1. My car has been noisy for years. Geoff himself tuned it and he dident seem to worried about it when he heard it. Im gonna call it normal and im used to it. However the lq4 with the new commotion eps cam made me smile.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

I had to put mine together with some old Vortec 350 lifters due to time constraints and they take way more preload than the newer LS1/LS6 style or LS7 style from the chart I found on LS1tech

I discovered this after trying some shorter pushrods because I thought I had way too much preload and with the short ones it kinda sounded like the top end was full of marbles and wouldn't pull for ****.

Mine is one of the quietest cammed ls engines I've heard with the 7.4s and the heads are milled .010"

sreve

iTrader: (3)

To the nay sayers
I used a Tick SNS 2 226\234 110 mild lobes.
LS7 lifters, Comp trunion kit, no noise, valve train
is quiet I'm pleased with it.

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

IMO, the Comp Cam LXL lobes it uses can make for a nice quiet valvetrain which will have better stability and life than most of the more aggressive lobes Comp Cam makes. The only negative about the LXL lobes is that they're only available in 4* increments, not 2* increments like many of the other Comp Cam lobes, so there's no 216,220,224,228,232,236, which I could easily see being use as often as the currently available sizes.

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

I think Geoff at EPS has his endurance lobes available in 2 degree increments now that CamMotion is grinding them.

Kip Fabre

They are available Every 1 degree and every .001 lift you can even order a lobe separation in .5 degrees like 113.5 with a 3.5 or any advance you may want.

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

Damn. That is awesome. I had no idea you could get a lobe profile in whatever lift you want. So, this goes straight from the computer to the grinder now? No master lobes needed anymore?

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

Wow, I evendidn't know that!