Why LSA doesn't matter - Page 11 - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion

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Why LSA doesn't matter

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Generation III Internal Engine 1997-2006 LS1 | LS6

Why LSA doesn't matter

05-22-2017, 11:25 PM
#201
TECH Senior Member

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Central Cal.
Posts: 8,711

Martin, your input here is priceless and appreciated! I got a good education reading(and reading, and reading....lol) thru this thread. Some of the best homework I know of!
06-21-2017, 05:35 AM
#202
Teching In

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3

From the OP:
1.) "If the events are right, the duration and LSA will be right."

1A.) If the Durations and LSA/LCL's are right, the events will be also. And the events are not what makes the engine run. It is the valve motion between the events.

2.) "Once I have selected the valve events I feel are best for the combination, I use a valve event calculator to compute those valve events into intake duration, exhaust duration, intake center line and exhaust center line."

2A.) I look at it a little different. I calculate the requirement for the intake and exhaust seat durations and net valve lifts, along with their lobe centerlines. Then I determine the opening and closing events for seat and/or .050" duration values.

3.) "LSA is just a number. It is a sum of numbers. Although the LSA is fixed to the camshaft used in a LS engine and cannot be altered once ground, it is not actually "ground into" the camshaft. It is merely a sum of numbers as I said above. The intake and exhaust "lobe centers" or the "lobe center lines" are what really matters along with the duration of the intake and exhaust lobe. "

3A.) It's true, LSA is the sum of the intake and exhaust center lines, while the center lines are a product of the LSA and degrees of advance/retard. Also, the engine's air consumption in CFM is the sum of the CFM from each of the cylinders. They are all numbers and are used by different people in different ways. I'll agree that Lobe center lines are more important than their sum, but how often do you have to advance or retard the cam after your first session on the dyno? If your numbers didn't pan out and you had to move it 2-3 degrees, then you might as well use the LSA.
08-05-2017, 09:13 PM
#203
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 2
Justgm race

I have a drag car that I'm changing over to LS engine. I have a 2500 pound car with power glide trans 5500rpm converter. I'm putting in 6.0 with 317 heads. What do I need to do to Heads and what's a good cam for this setup
08-06-2017, 10:31 AM
#204
Teching In

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3

I can't calculate any valve motion or camshaft requirements without input values. You have given me next to none. And I could not tell you what to do to any ports, but could determine what they would need to flow...again, with more info.
11-23-2017, 07:13 PM
#205
Staging Lane

Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: VA
Posts: 57
Cam Specs

Martin your a mad scientist man, very informative article 👌 Tick's awesome.
04-07-2018, 06:50 AM
#206
Staging Lane

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Shreveport, LA
Posts: 61

Originally Posted by Felix C
Goes counter to everything we have been taught since I started reading here in 2004.

I seem to recall a comment by SStrokerAce(sp?), a professional engine builder of long standing, regarding how important it is.

Consider the source. Just because someone claims to be a professional engine builder doesn't mean everything they say or do is correct. Especially if its SStrokerAce. He just regurgitates what he reads and what, his Dad, OldSStroker tells him.

Ask a known builder with a stellar reputation, such as Chad Speier or Chris Uratchko. Uratchko is a professional engine builder. A real professional engine builder whose livelihood depends on his ability to build elite powerplants. Where someone like SStrokerAce definitely isn't. I don't even think they're still doing it. Notice hesh been MIA for quite a while. A professional engine builder whose livelihood depends on their ability to produce doesn't just up and disappear like he has. They build engines and continue to, year after year, due to their ability to produce.

Something SStrokerAce doesn't do. Hell, they had issues with that even while he was still active.
04-17-2018, 01:08 AM
#207
On The Tree

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Plympton, MA
Posts: 171

Read this thread on the advice of DarthV8R. Well worth the time and read! It took me a couple days to get through it all, with work and such. But it has certainly helped me understand things! I worked on my Buick V6 cam with some help from a vendor. It turned out pretty well. But looking at all the different lobes available made my head spin at the time.
04-17-2018, 10:34 AM
#208

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Santa Ana, CA. USA
Posts: 2,155
Turbo Buick @ 11k RPM

Hi Nix, I too like the Buick V-6 engine.
I was a team member, the group that invented your ignition system including the "twin" post coil.
Today I have an upgraded Twin Post Coil made for MY USPS LLV DIS ignition kit.

I have assembled the Menard (Buick) V-6 engine for my sons Lola allowing him to race an Indy car at good speed.
This engine ran to 10,500 RPM with the Redline set to 11K.
Rod bearing life was ONLY 1200 Miles !

YOUR Buick set the standard for OEM turbo fitment.

The cam fit into the Menard had a LOT of overlap !
This engine "lit" at 8000 RPM.
The cost of EACH rod bolt was \$65.00.
The block used BFG O-Rings to seal the cylinder pressure. (Dry Deck)

Lance
04-18-2018, 12:01 AM
#209
On The Tree

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Plympton, MA
Posts: 171

Originally Posted by Pantera EFI
Hi Nix, I too like the Buick V-6 engine.
I was a team member, the group that invented your ignition system including the "twin" post coil.
Today I have an upgraded Twin Post Coil made for MY USPS LLV DIS ignition kit.

I have assembled the Menard (Buick) V-6 engine for my sons Lola allowing him to race an Indy car at good speed.
This engine ran to 10,500 RPM with the Redline set to 11K.
Rod bearing life was ONLY 1200 Miles !

YOUR Buick set the standard for OEM turbo fitment.

The cam fit into the Menard had a LOT of overlap !
This engine "lit" at 8000 RPM.
The cost of EACH rod bolt was \$65.00.
The block used BFG O-Rings to seal the cylinder pressure. (Dry Deck)

Lance
Interesting stuff Lance! That is some intense RPM, but they really needed it with the size of the Stage 2 / Indy head ports. I am actually moving away from the old ignition setup. Going to use an LS coil wired into my MS3x box.

I have my cam card, Ill bring it in to show with the class. Its not mild in the Buick world. The duration is in the 218/22x range with mid 500s lift. I believe we achieved an overlap of -8*. But I will find the card and post it here.

We can always learn from the cam timings of another motor

Zack
04-18-2018, 10:23 AM
#210

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Santa Ana, CA. USA
Posts: 2,155
Buick Turbo Cam Spec

Hi Zack, thanks for the kind words.

I have done many Pantera TT/Buick GN with DIS, my cam spec, Crower ground.
I had VERY good luck with cams of YOUR specified duration THOUGH they were on a 103C/L.

I ask, "What is the tooth count on your crankshaft Target Wheel ?"

I like DIY (MS3) work with Matt/Ben, they have bought 50K coils for me !

Would you like ME to supply your GEN-IV LS coils ?

My version is "wicked-up".

Lance