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Old Aug 1, 2014 | 01:34 PM
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Default First Real Mods Done

Not counting volant intake and freebies as mods, I finished my first real mods to the 'bird:

1. Replaced LS1 intake with BBK 5004 80mm intake. I know that the general consensus is it is roughly equal to LS6, but I was able to get it cheaper than the LS6 used intake - even off flea-bay.

2. Ported the throttle out to 80mm to match the intake.

3. When I took the intake off, i found that the PCV issue had hit hard, so I put the LS6 valley cover in (as posted in other thread about screwing up head bolts), so I took the heads off for a good cleaning.

4. While that far in, I pulled the heads and ported them out pretty big. Now getting >280 cfm at .600 lift

5. Replaced the stock .056 head gasket with .041 MLS head gasket (sprayed the crap out of it with copper coat for good measure). FYI, I have the notched heads. FelPro makes a MLS with the notch designed into the gasket, and it seals perfectly. They are side specific, so you have to make sure you get them right.

6. Pulled the whole clutch system - tick master, monster LS7 12" clutch, and that remote bleeder is awesome. I don't think I have ever bled a clutch that easily before.

7. Pulled the entire steering system. Kept power steering, but quicker ratio and larger pulley to reduce drag on the motor.

ran out of money, so no cam (for now)

ran out of money, so stock exhaust (for now)

8. Re-routed alot of stuff under the hood, so the install is pretty clean. I'm happy with it. Very fun project, I have to say. And the LS1 is much easier to work on - once you get over the initial fear - compared to the old small block. I had to reinstall the air and EGR stuff just to plug the manifold holes, but I'll put block offs on (next paycheck).

So, basically, I have better intake, throttle, higher flowing heads, and 10.5 compression ratio vs 10.1 (assuming the maths is good)

I still need to tune, but it runs quite well for not having tuned it. It smells lean to me. Got one heck of a smoke show for about 20 minutes on first start up. Sort of smelt like a campfire. After that cleared up, started the road testing and adjusting the clutch. Even without a tune, I feel like the car is at least 10% stronger - especially in the higher RPMs. It used to sort of peter out above 4,500, but in a couple of not too awefully aggressive street runs (the clutch is new, afterall), it feels much stronger to redline than it did at WOT before. Still getting used to the new clutch. I like it, but I looked like a teenaged girl trying to learn stick for a day.

So, a few questions for long-term planning:

1. I have searched all the header debates, and I know LT's are best, but the total exhaust expense for those is going to run >$1500.00. I'm going to go dual with X-pipe, no matter what. I have shorty headers on a LS2 in a S-10 (yeah that was my first rodeo), and to me they feel alot better than stock manifolds, but very few others seem to agree - reading the search results, that is. The difference is, I can install shorties for $400. The primaries on shorties are still way longer than the stock manifolds -especially on the passenger side "log" manifold. Then, I can gradually upgrade the exhaust system piece-meal. Is there reall honestly *NO BENEFIT* to shorties, or is it just less than LT's?

2. Cam selection. I'm thinking that with the flow on the heads so good up to 0.600, that the EPS 224 or 230 cam at 113şF would be a good match, give good low end torque and top end power, and with a good tune still have decent street manners. I can get the cam liftes, springs, locks, and everything for $880, which is half the cost of long tubes after the whole system is adapted for them.

So, I guess the real question is - should I go to the exhaust next or the cam next? If I lose a water pump, the cam will be part of that anyway, but if I get to choose the order of events, not sure which way to go.

Thanks y'all
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Old Aug 1, 2014 | 01:58 PM
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Get 1 7/8" longtubes. Period. Not sure where that price is coming from...Texas Speed sells good longtubes for just over $500 and they sell true duals that will bolt right up to them.

If that is too much, Speed Engineering sells longtubes for ~$270 for 1 7/8".

I would definitely do exhaust before the cam.
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Old Aug 1, 2014 | 02:08 PM
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I spent $1000 doing my exhaust and that covered labor as well. I have LT, x pipe and dumps
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Old Aug 1, 2014 | 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth_V8r
Not counting volant intake and freebies as mods, I finished my first real mods to the 'bird:

1. Replaced LS1 intake with BBK 5004 80mm intake. I know that the general consensus is it is roughly equal to LS6, but I was able to get it cheaper than the LS6 used intake - even off flea-bay.

2. Ported the throttle out to 80mm to match the intake.

3. When I took the intake off, i found that the PCV issue had hit hard, so I put the LS6 valley cover in (as posted in other thread about screwing up head bolts), so I took the heads off for a good cleaning.

4. While that far in, I pulled the heads and ported them out pretty big. Now getting >280 cfm at .600 lift
No offense meant but how do you know what they flow, were they flow benched? Who did the porting? Just the way you said "ported them out pretty big" makes it sound like you did it and didn't really have much regard for how they got ported. Beware that just hogging ports out can actually hurt performance. Again I'm not trying to come off as an *** lol
5. Replaced the stock .056 head gasket with .041 MLS head gasket (sprayed the crap out of it with copper coat for good measure). FYI, I have the notched heads. FelPro makes a MLS with the notch designed into the gasket, and it seals perfectly. They are side specific, so you have to make sure you get them right.

6. Pulled the whole clutch system - tick master, monster LS7 12" clutch, and that remote bleeder is awesome. I don't think I have ever bled a clutch that easily before.
What kind of clutch? A monster and an ls7 are 2 different units. one sucks and the other doesnt lol. Was it a monster level 1, 2, 3 etc or an actual gm ls7? curious as to what flyhweel also
7. Pulled the entire steering system. Kept power steering, but quicker ratio and larger pulley to reduce drag on the motor.

ran out of money, so no cam (for now)

ran out of money, so stock exhaust (for now)

8. Re-routed alot of stuff under the hood, so the install is pretty clean. I'm happy with it. Very fun project, I have to say. And the LS1 is much easier to work on - once you get over the initial fear - compared to the old small block. I had to reinstall the air and EGR stuff just to plug the manifold holes, but I'll put block offs on (next paycheck).

So, basically, I have better intake, throttle, higher flowing heads, and 10.5 compression ratio vs 10.1 (assuming the maths is good)

I still need to tune, but it runs quite well for not having tuned it. It smells lean to me. Got one heck of a smoke show for about 20 minutes on first start up. Sort of smelt like a campfire. After that cleared up, started the road testing and adjusting the clutch. Even without a tune, I feel like the car is at least 10% stronger - especially in the higher RPMs. It used to sort of peter out above 4,500, but in a couple of not too awefully aggressive street runs (the clutch is new, afterall), it feels much stronger to redline than it did at WOT before. Still getting used to the new clutch. I like it, but I looked like a teenaged girl trying to learn stick for a day.
Side note but have you check the normal thing an ls1 should be right in its powerband at 4500 and pull all the way to 6k. I have no doubt though that it does feel stronger.
So, a few questions for long-term planning:

1. I have searched all the header debates, and I know LT's are best, but the total exhaust expense for those is going to run >$1500.00. I'm going to go dual with X-pipe, no matter what. I have shorty headers on a LS2 in a S-10 (yeah that was my first rodeo), and to me they feel alot better than stock manifolds, but very few others seem to agree - reading the search results, that is. The difference is, I can install shorties for $400. The primaries on shorties are still way longer than the stock manifolds -especially on the passenger side "log" manifold. Then, I can gradually upgrade the exhaust system piece-meal. Is there reall honestly *NO BENEFIT* to shorties, or is it just less than LT's?
No benefit to shorties, the manifolds just flow that good compared to them. Now idk what lt's you're pricing but even my arh's and full bassani system didnt hit 1500. And that's top quality stainless headers 1-7/8" with stainless true duals. If you go with speed eng 1-7/8 or even tsp's you can have stainless 1-7/8 lt's and a y pipe for the 700 range or even less if you get the speed eng set which would be around 500 for it all. then add a catback of your choice or true duals. MAX you should be into that for is 1k for it all even less if you buy used or do with dumps.
2. Cam selection. I'm thinking that with the flow on the heads so good up to 0.600, that the EPS 224 or 230 cam at 113şF would be a good match, give good low end torque and top end power, and with a good tune still have decent street manners. I can get the cam liftes, springs, locks, and everything for $880, which is half the cost of long tubes after the whole system is adapted for them.
I assumed you mean 113 lsa or lobe separation angle. I also dont know if eps grinds cams at 224 I heard cam motion has the capability to grind the loes at whatever they want but I have only seen 222,226,230 etc. In which case I think the 226/230 on a 112+3 (4 degrees overlap) or 226/234 on a 113+4 (also 4 degrees) would make a fine driver with stock or ported heads. Lastly a cam will be choked horrendously with stock exhaust. You need lt's and a good flowing catback before a cam and it shouldnt cost 1500 unless you want it too.

So, I guess the real question is - should I go to the exhaust next or the cam next? If I lose a water pump, the cam will be part of that anyway, but if I get to choose the order of events, not sure which way to go.
Exhaust then cam or both at the same time, also the water pump is a pretty easy swap if it ever did go. To get to the cam requires much more dissassembly.
Thanks y'all
answered in quote
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Old Aug 1, 2014 | 08:13 PM
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Redbird, I was laughing my a$$ off at your responses. I'm at work, so I was trying to put all the info in and at the same time had stuff on my mind.

No, cousin vern didn't dremel out the heads or anything stupid like that. There are a couple of really good LS shops locally. I asked for them to duplicate ported 243 design on my 241's. My comment was really just that when I got them back, the ports - especially the exhaust ports - looked really big compared to my memory before I sent them. Probably not as good as AFR heads, but better than stock.

It is a monster level 3, but my understanding was that the clutch is based off the LS7 design and not the LS1 design. It has the 12" plate, has six beefy pads on it. Steel flywheel 28 pounds. I went with this one, because I have long term plans that rhyme with "408 CI"

I priced the kooks at $700, the cats at $200, and the catback with the X-pipe at $400, priced stainless, and figured extra for crap I didn't think of. I have yet to come in under budget on anything I build, because I never think to price weird stuff like clamps. So, I added $200 for miscellaneous BS. I guess I need to find better sites for price quotes. I did figure all stainless, because I don't want to do it twice.

On the high RPM stuff, what started all this was the intake was plugged by a sh1tty PCV. I poured a ton of oil out of the intake when I took it off, and two of the runners, I could not even rod out. I'm sure it was choking for air. Still, I've had the car for five years, and it has never run even close to how it is running now after doing all the work. I'm sure that if the shop did a poor job on the heads, it would not be as smooth and powerful as it is now.

On the cams, I was going off memory and got confused. Went back through emails. i was bouncing between comp cams 220/224/112 and eps 226/230/113. It was 113 LSA on the eps. Trolling around on forum searches, the eps lobes seem to come highly recommended. I got interupted for a temperature discussion and immediately wore fahrenheit on the post.

Mainly wanted to address the points above. I do understand the input, though. Cam won't perform well until the exhaust is opened up, which is good to know before dumping money into a cam only to hate it.
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Old Aug 1, 2014 | 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth_V8r
Redbird, I was laughing my a$$ off at your responses. I'm at work, so I was trying to put all the info in and at the same time had stuff on my mind.

No, cousin vern didn't dremel out the heads or anything stupid like that. There are a couple of really good LS shops locally. I asked for them to duplicate ported 243 design on my 241's. My comment was really just that when I got them back, the ports - especially the exhaust ports - looked really big compared to my memory before I sent them. Probably not as good as AFR heads, but better than stock.

It is a monster level 3, but my understanding was that the clutch is based off the LS7 design and not the LS1 design. It has the 12" plate, has six beefy pads on it. Steel flywheel 28 pounds. I went with this one, because I have long term plans that rhyme with "408 CI"

I priced the kooks at $700, the cats at $200, and the catback with the X-pipe at $400, priced stainless, and figured extra for crap I didn't think of. I have yet to come in under budget on anything I build, because I never think to price weird stuff like clamps. So, I added $200 for miscellaneous BS. I guess I need to find better sites for price quotes. I did figure all stainless, because I don't want to do it twice.

On the high RPM stuff, what started all this was the intake was plugged by a sh1tty PCV. I poured a ton of oil out of the intake when I took it off, and two of the runners, I could not even rod out. I'm sure it was choking for air. Still, I've had the car for five years, and it has never run even close to how it is running now after doing all the work. I'm sure that if the shop did a poor job on the heads, it would not be as smooth and powerful as it is now.

On the cams, I was going off memory and got confused. Went back through emails. i was bouncing between comp cams 220/224/112 and eps 226/230/113. It was 113 LSA on the eps. Trolling around on forum searches, the eps lobes seem to come highly recommended. I got interupted for a temperature discussion and immediately wore fahrenheit on the post.

Mainly wanted to address the points above. I do understand the input, though. Cam won't perform well until the exhaust is opened up, which is good to know before dumping money into a cam only to hate it.
Hey man no problem glad you found it helpful. You dont really "need" kooks lol I have arhs and dont get me wrong along with kooks you cant get any better. However I understand that not everyone wants to spend that coin which is why there are over seas brands. I had BBK's myself and they were awesome but I knew they were on borrowed time so I saved for arh's.

Speed engineering makes these below and they have great reviews and fitment. For people on a budget they are a great option. If you arent dead set on cats the tsp y-pipe also listed here is very reasonable and even if you want cats its still not too bad. After all is said and done you could pick up a used catback on here or even a new magnaflow for around 375. Dont be afraid of finding a used y pipe or header system either. By the way these headers and y pipe are ALL stainless and the magnaflow catback is as well.
http://www.speedengineeringlsx.com/s...ersion-25-1020

http://texas-speed.com/p-293-texas-s...ad-y-pipe.aspx

http://texas-speed.com/p-292-texas-s...ed-y-pipe.aspx

the 226/230 is a proven performer and will drive very nice. You're ported heads may like a little more though I think a 230/234 on a 113+4 would also be good and the added compression will help the midrange tq. It will have 6 degress overlap give a little bump in power and still drive fine with a good tune. Just an fyi but overlap is avg of int/exh duration-2*lsa. so here 232-226=6 generally on a stock cube ls1 anything with under 8 degrees overlap can be tuned to drive well.

Eps lobes are very well mannered for street use and if you like them by all means go for it. Other guys like Kip @cam moition Allan @ Futral Martin@ Tick etc are all good as well and have their own proven designs
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Old Aug 1, 2014 | 10:32 PM
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I did pacesetter LT they look great still and after 5 years
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Old Aug 2, 2014 | 02:12 AM
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Pacesetters were great for their time, but there are better offerings namely TSP and speed engineering that you can get stainless and 1 7/8th for less or same money.
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Old Aug 2, 2014 | 08:59 AM
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Looks like ill be changing out then
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