Engine won't crank
Engine won't crank ....with just one sparkplug in. It doesn't matter which plug is installed. There is either an obstruction, or some type of valve incident occurred as the engine was shut off....timing chain slip, etc. All of the valves and events seem to be correct.
The original problem seemed to be electrical. The night before, I successfully ran the car. The following night, the key was turned, the pump primed, but just one tick from the starter. After troubleshooting from the wrong angle, I realized that the battery would not hold a charge. I believe that I burned it out trying to start the engine.
Moving forward, with all sparkplugs out, the engine cranks fine, manually, with a half inch ratchet on the damper, and also cranks fine with my Toyota battery. I'm running a TR224, and the plugs & valves should not obstruct the pistons
My question is...is there a scenario where the timing chain slips/moves, causing the closed valves to create too much pressure in the chambers?
Before I go removing the front of the engine, I'd like to hear your views.
The original problem seemed to be electrical. The night before, I successfully ran the car. The following night, the key was turned, the pump primed, but just one tick from the starter. After troubleshooting from the wrong angle, I realized that the battery would not hold a charge. I believe that I burned it out trying to start the engine.
Moving forward, with all sparkplugs out, the engine cranks fine, manually, with a half inch ratchet on the damper, and also cranks fine with my Toyota battery. I'm running a TR224, and the plugs & valves should not obstruct the pistons
My question is...is there a scenario where the timing chain slips/moves, causing the closed valves to create too much pressure in the chambers?
Before I go removing the front of the engine, I'd like to hear your views.
If the timing chain slipped it would most likely turn over easier since valves will be open when they are supposed to be closed on compression stroke that is unless you have piston to valve contact and that can't be the problem if it turns over without spark plugs in the cylinder.
Are you sure the starter is working at 100% and not weak? Still the same starter or did you replace it?
Are you sure the starter is working at 100% and not weak? Still the same starter or did you replace it?
You followed my original line of thinking.
I did first replace the solenoid, and when that didn't work, the starter & solenoid were replaced with a brand new set that I had...same result.
Then, we moved on to, & replaced the ignition switch, because I noticed that the cranking voltage was being shunted to about 7 volts during cranking.
Later, I disconnected the ignition switch wire at the solenoid, then jumpered the solenoid direct to the good Toyota battery. Same result. Then, at the battery, I also had disconnected the 12v supply to the ignition and all accessories.
I've been chasing my tail for the past few days, and it's entirely possible that somewhere along the way, something was missed.
Finally, with the one spark plug in, I can turn the engine although there is some compression resistance from the one spark plug.
I did first replace the solenoid, and when that didn't work, the starter & solenoid were replaced with a brand new set that I had...same result.
Then, we moved on to, & replaced the ignition switch, because I noticed that the cranking voltage was being shunted to about 7 volts during cranking.
Later, I disconnected the ignition switch wire at the solenoid, then jumpered the solenoid direct to the good Toyota battery. Same result. Then, at the battery, I also had disconnected the 12v supply to the ignition and all accessories.
I've been chasing my tail for the past few days, and it's entirely possible that somewhere along the way, something was missed.
Finally, with the one spark plug in, I can turn the engine although there is some compression resistance from the one spark plug.
Last edited by gMAG; Aug 19, 2014 at 10:49 PM.
If you had a timing chain event, ours crank easier. If it was bad enough you'd have no compression and the engine would spin smoothly.
Any chance you broke a ground strap or something simple like that?
Any chance you broke a ground strap or something simple like that?
Anything is still possible.
In reviewing these events, and the subsequent troubleshooting, I realized that every time I had jumpered in my Toyota battery, that the battery was BRIDGED onto the existing Camaro battery cables (without the Camaro battery).
This means that I hadn't eliminated the alternator, or the cable between the starter and the battery.
Tonight, I will disconnect all leads at the starter, then directly connect the Toyota battery to the starter. I think this is going to work.
In reviewing these events, and the subsequent troubleshooting, I realized that every time I had jumpered in my Toyota battery, that the battery was BRIDGED onto the existing Camaro battery cables (without the Camaro battery).
This means that I hadn't eliminated the alternator, or the cable between the starter and the battery.
Tonight, I will disconnect all leads at the starter, then directly connect the Toyota battery to the starter. I think this is going to work.
This afternoon, all Camaro battery cables were bypassed with jumper cables from the Toyota, directly to the Camaro starter. With one plug in, the engine cranked just as it should. I thought I was home free, so the other 7 plugs were installed.
Again, the engine would not crank, and I believe that I toasted the solenoid, as smoke arose after the fuse I installed failed to blow.
Though the engine could not be cranked, I could manually turn it, again, with a 1/2 ratchet and small breaker bar. It had what seems to be a "normal" resistance.
Afterward, I replaced the factory original starter & solenoid, with the replacement units.
Tomorrow, we'll give it another go.
Again, the engine would not crank, and I believe that I toasted the solenoid, as smoke arose after the fuse I installed failed to blow.
Though the engine could not be cranked, I could manually turn it, again, with a 1/2 ratchet and small breaker bar. It had what seems to be a "normal" resistance.
Afterward, I replaced the factory original starter & solenoid, with the replacement units.
Tomorrow, we'll give it another go.
After replacing the starter & solenoid, and also isolating them, the engine still doesn't spin with plugs in. If the 10 gauge jumper is left on the solenoid for too long, it will fry the solenoid.
It still spins manually with plugs in.
I'm stumped, for the moment.
It still spins manually with plugs in.
I'm stumped, for the moment.
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Possibly something in the bell housing interfering with the starter movements or teeth on the flywheel ruined? Sounds like the starter is trying to work and something is stopping it.
What if you remove the accessory belts? My father in laws Cadillac almost acted like it had locked up. The AC compressor had frozen, which wouldn't let the motor run. Took belt off, motor fired up. That's how we found it. If it starts, don't let it run long.
What if you remove the accessory belts? My father in laws Cadillac almost acted like it had locked up. The AC compressor had frozen, which wouldn't let the motor run. Took belt off, motor fired up. That's how we found it. If it starts, don't let it run long.
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Possibly something in the bell housing interfering with the starter movements or teeth on the flywheel ruined? Sounds like the starter is trying to work and something is stopping it.
What if you remove the accessory belts? My father in laws Cadillac almost acted like it had locked up. The AC compressor had frozen, which wouldn't let the motor run. Took belt off, motor fired up. That's how we found it. If it starts, don't let it run long.
What if you remove the accessory belts? My father in laws Cadillac almost acted like it had locked up. The AC compressor had frozen, which wouldn't let the motor run. Took belt off, motor fired up. That's how we found it. If it starts, don't let it run long.
However, you might be on to something. The additional drag from plug compression, plus an accessory drag could be taking it "over the top", drag-wise.
I'll try this today. Thanks.
The belt/accessories have been ruled out.
Also, I tried turning the engine, using a 1/2" ratchet...this time, without the breaker bar. I placed my hand on the ratchet at about the same diameter as the starter wheel would be on the flywheel. It was quite difficult to turn. I have no idea how hard it should be.
When I ported the heads, a hole was poked through the #7 runner. It was then weld repaired, and also pressure tested. I filled each cylinder one at a time with rope. No fluid was found.
Also, I tried turning the engine, using a 1/2" ratchet...this time, without the breaker bar. I placed my hand on the ratchet at about the same diameter as the starter wheel would be on the flywheel. It was quite difficult to turn. I have no idea how hard it should be.
When I ported the heads, a hole was poked through the #7 runner. It was then weld repaired, and also pressure tested. I filled each cylinder one at a time with rope. No fluid was found.
Just did a quick and dirty experiment. According to my torque wrench, it takes 27 ft pounds except for one spot in the rotation that takes 62 to rotate via the nut on the crank pulley. If you are a lot higher than that, you are probably in for a rebuild
This may not be related but check your battery voltage and alternator connections/wiring.
Friday, I helped my neighbor with his supercharged monte. He had just driven it home from a shop where they had fixed a water leak. The shop had left off the 4 or 5 pin alternator plug. Right after he got home, he tried to restart the engine. It would only click like the battery was dead. I read the voltage on the battery and it was 11.5. I jumpered it with a spare battery I had and it started. It run like sh.. so I read the voltage to see if the alternator was boosting it. It read about 6 volts while it was running and had him shut it off. Since he had recently replaced the battery and alternator, I started checking grounds and battery connections. The big power lead was connected on the alternator buy not the 4 or 5 pin connector.
Good luck.
Steve
Friday, I helped my neighbor with his supercharged monte. He had just driven it home from a shop where they had fixed a water leak. The shop had left off the 4 or 5 pin alternator plug. Right after he got home, he tried to restart the engine. It would only click like the battery was dead. I read the voltage on the battery and it was 11.5. I jumpered it with a spare battery I had and it started. It run like sh.. so I read the voltage to see if the alternator was boosting it. It read about 6 volts while it was running and had him shut it off. Since he had recently replaced the battery and alternator, I started checking grounds and battery connections. The big power lead was connected on the alternator buy not the 4 or 5 pin connector.
Good luck.
Steve
OK the verdict is....bad battery.
I had brought the original battery to have it load tested, and 'they' told me that it was within range/good. This led to a lot of tail chasing.
Yesterday, after fiddling around some more, and getting intermittent results, I went somewhere else to recheck the battery. This time, I was told that there was only an 8% charge, even though both my chargers indicated there was a full charge.
The new battery was installed, and the engine now cranks perfectly.
I regret that the past two weeks of downtime had provided pristine driving weather. But, I'm happy to have her back.
I thank you all for your help.
Glenn
I had brought the original battery to have it load tested, and 'they' told me that it was within range/good. This led to a lot of tail chasing.
Yesterday, after fiddling around some more, and getting intermittent results, I went somewhere else to recheck the battery. This time, I was told that there was only an 8% charge, even though both my chargers indicated there was a full charge.
The new battery was installed, and the engine now cranks perfectly.
I regret that the past two weeks of downtime had provided pristine driving weather. But, I'm happy to have her back.
I thank you all for your help.
Glenn
