Do these require aftermarket rockers for every setup. Anyone using these or other trick flows with factory rockers. If so how they holding up. I know I have been asking about heads for over a year but I'm getting closer to actually purchasing a set so just trying to get a parts list together thanks.

 

You can use stock rockers if you get powdered metal guides I believe.

 

Correct. That is what Brian Tooley told me.

 

Correct if the heads are purchased with PM guides you can use stock rockers on them no problem. Just uses a tick longer pushrod.

You can't buy them direct from Summit or Trickflow this way though... They have to be purchased through Total Engine Airflow, or one of their dealers such as BTR or myself, because they are the ones that swap the guides.

 

I could have sworn that Summit lists the cnc'd TF 205s as having the pm guides as well as small chambers to easily hit 11.25 compression without milling or thin gaskets.

 

I'm using my stock rockers with my TFS 220's and couldn't be happier. As said above, as long as you get the powdered metal guides you'll be set.

 

Just make sure you break or grind off the little tabs on the bottom of the stock rocker pedestals before you install them. Otherwise the base wont sit flat on the mounting surface and can cause issues.

 

The 205s do include the PM guides. And they are fully CNC'd for 1995. I would recommend them over the As-Cast 220s. They flow pretty similar, but you have a lot more compression with the 205s, and a smaller CSA for better throttle response. Had I known about them, I would have went that way over the TEAs I have. I wouldn't have had to flycut either, and I would have a lot more compression - 58cc with stock PTV clearance.

 

What's the cost of swapping the guides? With the heads being a little over $1800 to begin with another few hundred for the new guides and labor is pushing into the CNC heads territory price wise...

 

I think it's like $100-150 or so. But the CNC heads still have bronze guides too (at least the 215s and up), so you're still about $600 cheaper than the full CNC heads (if you do PM guides there, otherwise factor in $450 for roller rockers).

Brian Tooley used to sell the As-Cast 220s with hand porting (he may still). I think it was around $2200 with the PM guides, LS3 valves, and hand porting. So, it's still cheaper than the out-of-the-box 215s and has similar power with lighter valves, and makes use of lighter and cheaper stock rockers. So the price delta is still a few hundred bucks at least.

 

When I was talking with Brian about his hand worked TFS 220cc heads, he stated they would be right at, and possibly even better, than the out of the box TFS 215cc heads. In my opinion, if you're looking for TFS heads, go the TFS 220cc route. Plus, they can always be CNC ported down the road.

 

Just saw that AI also has a CNC program for the 220s. $2300 for full CNC, PM guides and valvetrain. That's on the stock valves, but may have more power potential from the CNC vs hand touchup.

 

A lot of porters use the Trickflow porters castings. Basically, they put their own program through the TFS casting. It has no port work, just the bare casting. So it's not the same as the TFS 220s, which have the port program cast into the heads.

I think the best CNC port program of the porters casting is from Frankenstein Racing. It runs about $3k fully prepped. But he has like 8 or 9 port programs depending on what you need.

 

Their website says that this program can also be applied to the TFS 220 (along with the "porter's casting"), whether that's true I don't know as I'm just going by what their ad says. If that's the case it would be nice as it incorporates both the porter's and head designer's work.

 

I was told the AI TFS heads would not be optimal on a 346ci.

 

I sell the As cast 220's with PM guides and a Titanium retainer BTR spring kit for 2100 Fully assembled and complete, And i think Brian sells them for the same. He's still the best cylinder head guy in the country imo even though he's semi retired from doing it these days and thats why I get all my heads through him.

Id put the BTR prepped 220's up against any of the OTB 225's that are out there these days... and they are 400 cheaper than the CNC'd 205's and 225's to boot..

They are the best bang for the buck in aftermarket Cylinder heads imo. There might be cheaper alternatives.... But i don't think they perform as well as these heads have been shown to.

 

Thanks for all the input. John ill keep you in mind when I purchase.

 

Vengeance racing is offering 200.00 off their TFS-220/Cam package.

2178.00 your choice of cam, powdered metal guides, mls head gaskets.

 

I run the TF as cast 220s with stock rockers. Never had a single problem. I highly recommed having them worked by AI. With a cam matched to the flow of those heads, a FAST intake and an efficient exhaust, you will NOT be disappointed!

 

John what valves does that price include