Suggestions/recommendations about valvetrain upgrades
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Boise, Idaho
Suggestions/recommendations about valvetrain upgrades So my goal is to swap an LM7 into my third-gen, I've done countless hours about rebuilding and modding LS series smallblocks. I really want a high revving engine that can endure the stress, end goal is a smooth power/torque curve the could possibly be used with a turbo, but for now just a decent powerband up to about 7000+ rpm. I believe my combo for the top end is pretty solid, but that being said just dropping cash on some name brand parts doesn't always work. So my question is will my parts work together properly or will is there any better alternatives to my setup. Here's my future shopping list: Hawk's stage 3 LS cam package (with 224R w/ 112LSA cam, stock length pushrods, LS6 lifters, dual valvesprings) and Comp Cams ultra gold rocker arms(1.8) ratio
I'm really just double checking to see what works, I don't wanna tear apart the motor once it goes into the car, especially after seeing a guy in my auto tech class drop close to $2500 on his SBC top end only to have a joke of a power band and power output on the dyno because he just went and bought the best brand name parts he could and didn't do the math/research to see what works together and what doesn't.
I know it's a lot to read but any input is much appreciated
I'm really just double checking to see what works, I don't wanna tear apart the motor once it goes into the car, especially after seeing a guy in my auto tech class drop close to $2500 on his SBC top end only to have a joke of a power band and power output on the dyno because he just went and bought the best brand name parts he could and didn't do the math/research to see what works together and what doesn't.
I know it's a lot to read but any input is much appreciated
I'd use stock rockers with the trunion upgrade, A cam with MILD lobes like the Hawks 224/224 with XE lobe, NOT the 224r which use aggressive XE-R lobes. I'd also get the cam on a 114 or 115 lsa. For PR's a set of thicker/stiffer Manton 11/32", and use a PR length checker to get the correct length. For duel springs BTR dual get my vote, or even some PAC racing single springs . For lifters I'd go with some more quality lifters like a set of Johnson lifters.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Boise, Idaho
I'd use stock rockers with the trunion upgrade, A cam with MILD lobes like the Hawks 224/224 with XE lobe, NOT the 224r which use aggressive XE-R lobes. I'd also get the cam on a 114 or 115 lsa. For PR's a set of thicker/stiffer Manton 11/32", and use a PR length checker to get the correct length. For duel springs BTR dual get my vote, or even some PAC racing single springs . For lifters I'd go with some more quality lifters like a set of Johnson lifters.
7000 rpm ? You will want to upgrade your connecting rod bolts. Maybe some more oiling goodies like a Improved Racing baffle and crank scraper. Good oil pump too.
Also, if your willing to give up some low RPM manners, instead of the 224/224 go bigger. Maybe the Comp Cams HUC 231 lobe (catalog # 13045) single pattern 231/231 HUC.598/HUC.598 should be stable and breath very well at 7K but on a LM7 will not be as nice to daily drive as the 224/224. Maybe a cam from Cam Motion or EPS.
Read https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...alvetrain.html
Also, if your willing to give up some low RPM manners, instead of the 224/224 go bigger. Maybe the Comp Cams HUC 231 lobe (catalog # 13045) single pattern 231/231 HUC.598/HUC.598 should be stable and breath very well at 7K but on a LM7 will not be as nice to daily drive as the 224/224. Maybe a cam from Cam Motion or EPS.
Read https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...alvetrain.html
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Boise, Idaho
7000 rpm ? You will want to upgrade your connecting rod bolts. Maybe some more oiling goodies like a Improved Racing baffle and crank scraper. Good oil pump too.
Also, if your willing to give up some low RPM manners, instead of the 224/224 go bigger. Maybe the Comp Cams HUC 231 lobe (catalog # 13045) single pattern 231/231 HUC.598/HUC.598 should be stable and breath very well at 7K but on a LM7 will not be as nice to daily drive as the 224/224. Maybe a cam from Cam Motion or EPS.
Read https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...alvetrain.html
Also, if your willing to give up some low RPM manners, instead of the 224/224 go bigger. Maybe the Comp Cams HUC 231 lobe (catalog # 13045) single pattern 231/231 HUC.598/HUC.598 should be stable and breath very well at 7K but on a LM7 will not be as nice to daily drive as the 224/224. Maybe a cam from Cam Motion or EPS.
Read https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...alvetrain.html
goin with ARP connecting rods & a SLP ported oil pump. Also gonna try and get a 98-02 F-body oil-pan w/ windage tray. I shall look into that crank scraper and CC HUC though, thank you 
I forgot to add that with the 224/224 on a 114 or 115 lsa run it with 0/no advance. That will help shift the power band up higher. IVC with the 114lsa would be 46*, and 47* with the 115lsa.
I'd either have the cam done on a custom grind with 0 advance or get a adjustable timing chain/gear set and retard the cam however much its advanced in the grind(typically 3*-4*) .
I'd either have the cam done on a custom grind with 0 advance or get a adjustable timing chain/gear set and retard the cam however much its advanced in the grind(typically 3*-4*) .
Last edited by 99Bluz28; Oct 30, 2014 at 01:49 AM.
FlowTech induction. Complete package of matched parts for your combo. Ed has years of experience and will get you parts that will with together and be durable. He doesn't sell cheap Chinese retainers and stock locks just to he the cheapest guy in town.
My dad's car has a cam and spring kit from him has 18000 miles on it with nothing other than oil changes.
Tim
My dad's car has a cam and spring kit from him has 18000 miles on it with nothing other than oil changes.
Tim
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Because to get a good set of lifters that are properly clearanced for bore ID and cup OD costs money. Doesn't have to be for high RPM or anything. Ask GM what lifters their race teams use...........
I understand but I have seen folks have good luck with morel 5315 lifters and they are under 300.00. For a mild cam such as a 224 I have a hard time believing the OP needs a 700.00 set of lifters.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Boise, Idaho
7000 rpm ? You will want to upgrade your connecting rod bolts. Maybe some more oiling goodies like a Improved Racing baffle and crank scraper. Good oil pump too.
Also, if your willing to give up some low RPM manners, instead of the 224/224 go bigger. Maybe the Comp Cams HUC 231 lobe (catalog # 13045) single pattern 231/231 HUC.598/HUC.598 should be stable and breath very well at 7K but on a LM7 will not be as nice to daily drive as the 224/224. Maybe a cam from Cam Motion or EPS.
Read https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...alvetrain.html
Also, if your willing to give up some low RPM manners, instead of the 224/224 go bigger. Maybe the Comp Cams HUC 231 lobe (catalog # 13045) single pattern 231/231 HUC.598/HUC.598 should be stable and breath very well at 7K but on a LM7 will not be as nice to daily drive as the 224/224. Maybe a cam from Cam Motion or EPS.
Read https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...alvetrain.html
So the XE-R lobe sounds like a better cam but there are trade-offs. Because it opens the valve so fast it's hard on valve springs and lifters. They will wear out much faster. Also, your pushrods will try to bend because of the fast ramp rate. As you rev to your 7000 rpm goal, your pushrods could act like springs and loft the valve off the nose of the cam, valve float. This is the point that the soft XE lobe catches up. It may have another 300 to 400 rpm before the float begins and that extra rpm is extra horsepower.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Boise, Idaho
Those cams use the Comp XE-R lobe. Daily driving at low rpm, they would be great. They would idle better and have more vacuum than a 224 with a XE lobe. Both the 224r and 224XE measure the same at .050 lift but the XE-R waits a bit longer to open the valve. It would have less overlap because at .006 it has 273 duration instead of the XE 277 duration. It feels like a smaller cam, manners wise but more power. When it does open the valve, it jerks the valve open and gets to 224 @ .050 faster. From .050 to .200 it is opening (and closing) faster, 146 compared to 142 for the XE and has a bit more peak lift, .581 compared to .568.
So the XE-R lobe sounds like a better cam but there are trade-offs. Because it opens the valve so fast it's hard on valve springs and lifters. They will wear out much faster. Also, your pushrods will try to bend because of the fast ramp rate. As you rev to your 7000 rpm goal, your pushrods could act like springs and loft the valve off the nose of the cam, valve float. This is the point that the soft XE lobe catches up. It may have another 300 to 400 rpm before the float begins and that extra rpm is extra horsepower.
So the XE-R lobe sounds like a better cam but there are trade-offs. Because it opens the valve so fast it's hard on valve springs and lifters. They will wear out much faster. Also, your pushrods will try to bend because of the fast ramp rate. As you rev to your 7000 rpm goal, your pushrods could act like springs and loft the valve off the nose of the cam, valve float. This is the point that the soft XE lobe catches up. It may have another 300 to 400 rpm before the float begins and that extra rpm is extra horsepower.
Here's a link to the kit I want to get for any reference: http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/cam-kit-hawks-ls1-ls6-stage-3-camshaft-package/
You need to measure pushrod length with a checker. 7.40 is pretty standard and works most of the time but not always. Aside from that you need to consider thicker diameter pushrods for aggressive lobes. 5/16 chromoly is good for XE lobe and lighter stuff, but 11/32 mantons would be better for aggressive lobes. Lift does not determine push rod length. Base circle of the cam, deck height, head gasket thickness, all contribute to length needed. Normally smaller cams have a larger base circle, bigger cams have a smaller base circle. Again the best way to get the correct push rod length is to buy a comp cams checker and measure.
The pushrods in the kit I'm hoping to buy are suppose to be chromoly, would going with the stock size of 7.400" or the bigger 7.425" option help to eliminate valve float? Or would I have togo smaller because of the bigger lift?
Here's a link to the kit I want to get for any reference: http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/ca...shaft-package/
Here's a link to the kit I want to get for any reference: http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/ca...shaft-package/
The kit you linked to seems fair but I think you have more reading to do to make the best choice.
Read this first: https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...alvetrain.html
This will help.
Also, I'd stay away from Hawks. WS6Store offers better pricing.
But in all honesty, I ended up buying all the components of my valvetrain from about 8 different vendors. Why? Well, that's the only way I got exactly what I wanted.
This will help.
Also, I'd stay away from Hawks. WS6Store offers better pricing.
But in all honesty, I ended up buying all the components of my valvetrain from about 8 different vendors. Why? Well, that's the only way I got exactly what I wanted.
