Lifters
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 255
From: Ft. Wayne, IN
Lifters So I have a few parts left to purchase before I can start my H/C/I install and lifters are one of those items. There seems to be several opinions on what lifters to use. I have contacted a few different vendors and was given a different recommendation each time. I was recommended the following:
- LS7
-Morel 5315
-Johnson short travel
I want to know at what point should one consider ditching a stock style lifter in favor of a link bar short travel lifter? I have a hard time believing I need a 700.00 set of lifters for a 224/228 mild lobe cam and PAC 1904 springs. I am not opposed to going this route if necessary, but it seems excessive.
I just spent the last couple hours reading threads on lifters and the consensus is most suggest parts based on what they read with no definitive answer why they suggest X lifter.
Thoughts?
- LS7
-Morel 5315
-Johnson short travel
I want to know at what point should one consider ditching a stock style lifter in favor of a link bar short travel lifter? I have a hard time believing I need a 700.00 set of lifters for a 224/228 mild lobe cam and PAC 1904 springs. I am not opposed to going this route if necessary, but it seems excessive.
I just spent the last couple hours reading threads on lifters and the consensus is most suggest parts based on what they read with no definitive answer why they suggest X lifter.
Thoughts?
Last edited by kinglt-1; Nov 8, 2014 at 06:36 PM.
The cam is not much of an issue. You don't say what lift it is, but the duration isn't much. The real issue is the springs. With 400 pounds of open pressure, you need a lifter strong enough to manage that. The stock LS7 lifters are not made for that.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 255
From: Ft. Wayne, IN
Could you explain in further detail where you read or experienced that LS7 lifters will not handle the spring rates of most aftermarket duals? I mean there have been so many combinations running a 150/400 spring with stock type lifters, I would like to read the information that states otherwise. The point of this thread is to get some clarity on when it is time to start looking at getting away from a OEM style drop in lifter.
.bob, the actual specs of my cam are 224/228 .534 .537 112 @ 1.7 ratio. Being my car was equipped with SLP 1.85 rockers when I bought it, I choose this cam because it matches well with higher ratio rockers. The SLP are stock style with upgraded trunions, so I wanted to keep them. The 1.85 ratio effectively change the cam to a 225/229 .581 .584. About right in the ball park where I wanted to be. Yea I know some consider the lift to be low but I really do not want a cam with over .600 lift. So it limited my options of cams that offeres a mild lobe, like higher ratio rockers, and keeps lift under .600. I contacted Brian Tooley about this cam and his 223/230 .60x .59x 115 and he said this one will be fine. His exact words were "more lift does not always mean more power".
Anyways back to lifters.
.bob, the actual specs of my cam are 224/228 .534 .537 112 @ 1.7 ratio. Being my car was equipped with SLP 1.85 rockers when I bought it, I choose this cam because it matches well with higher ratio rockers. The SLP are stock style with upgraded trunions, so I wanted to keep them. The 1.85 ratio effectively change the cam to a 225/229 .581 .584. About right in the ball park where I wanted to be. Yea I know some consider the lift to be low but I really do not want a cam with over .600 lift. So it limited my options of cams that offeres a mild lobe, like higher ratio rockers, and keeps lift under .600. I contacted Brian Tooley about this cam and his 223/230 .60x .59x 115 and he said this one will be fine. His exact words were "more lift does not always mean more power".
Anyways back to lifters.
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I've put BTR and Manley dual springs on LS7 lifters in dozens of applications and never had an issue. They're a good lifter for the money, but obviously the more expensive lifters are nicer and often machined to tighter tolerances. Short travel lifters, IMO, aren't really worth it in a street car unless you're after every last horsepower and trying to turn some RPM.
Now if you have a heavy valvetrain, an aggressive lobe, and not enough spring to control it all, then it doesn't really matter what lifter you have, it's going to get beat up and eventually fail.
Now if you have a heavy valvetrain, an aggressive lobe, and not enough spring to control it all, then it doesn't really matter what lifter you have, it's going to get beat up and eventually fail.
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I just went through all this crap. Hear is what I came up with.
Higher spring pressures will or can make ls7 lifters bleed down during operation causing that wonderfull ticking sound. Temp and oil viscosity can play a role here but the better oils now have low viscos ratings and higher psi ratings.
I went with a moral .750 wide rollers so as to keep rotation down and decrease problems seen with link failures.
Shorter travel will have less bleed down. So I was even thinking of running the original ls1 pre ls7 liters If cash challenged.
Lately I found out the ls7 engine doesn't even use ls7 lifters because of its high rpm ability and then there is the caddy racing lifters. Not Sure if they are one in the same or if they are short travel. These might be a way to go.
I know one thing. When a lifter breaks u can usually kiss the hole engine goodbye.
Higher spring pressures will or can make ls7 lifters bleed down during operation causing that wonderfull ticking sound. Temp and oil viscosity can play a role here but the better oils now have low viscos ratings and higher psi ratings.
I went with a moral .750 wide rollers so as to keep rotation down and decrease problems seen with link failures.
Shorter travel will have less bleed down. So I was even thinking of running the original ls1 pre ls7 liters If cash challenged.
Lately I found out the ls7 engine doesn't even use ls7 lifters because of its high rpm ability and then there is the caddy racing lifters. Not Sure if they are one in the same or if they are short travel. These might be a way to go.
I know one thing. When a lifter breaks u can usually kiss the hole engine goodbye.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 255
From: Ft. Wayne, IN
I just went through all this crap. Hear is what I came up with.
Higher spring pressures will or can make ls7 lifters bleed down during operation causing that wonderfull ticking sound. Temp and oil viscosity can play a role here but the better oils now have low viscos ratings and higher psi ratings.
I went with a moral .750 wide rollers so as to keep rotation down and decrease problems seen with link failures.
Shorter travel will have less bleed down. So I was even thinking of running the original ls1 pre ls7 liters If cash challenged.
Lately I found out the ls7 engine doesn't even use ls7 lifters because of its high rpm ability and then there is the caddy racing lifters. Not Sure if they are one in the same or if they are short travel. These might be a way to go.
I know one thing. When a lifter breaks u can usually kiss the hole engine goodbye.
Higher spring pressures will or can make ls7 lifters bleed down during operation causing that wonderfull ticking sound. Temp and oil viscosity can play a role here but the better oils now have low viscos ratings and higher psi ratings.
I went with a moral .750 wide rollers so as to keep rotation down and decrease problems seen with link failures.
Shorter travel will have less bleed down. So I was even thinking of running the original ls1 pre ls7 liters If cash challenged.
Lately I found out the ls7 engine doesn't even use ls7 lifters because of its high rpm ability and then there is the caddy racing lifters. Not Sure if they are one in the same or if they are short travel. These might be a way to go.
I know one thing. When a lifter breaks u can usually kiss the hole engine goodbye.
From what I understand in my many conversations with Johnson is that the most severe test on a lifter is just idling. Low oil pressure and flow and the axles and rollers don't get lubed. I know for a fact the idle capabilities separate the men from the boys. This is why new lifters have axle oiling which greatly improves the idle life and greatly increases the cost due to the odd-angled EDMd hole.
Leak down on stock lifters has very high tolerances and each valve effectively gets different lift at a given RPM in this situation. Better lifters have tighter tolerances on leak down which will translate to even valve excursion. That said, as mentioned in this thread and all over the site lift is not the major controller of flow, thus don't expect big HP gains. Just more longevity and a little easier on the valvetrain. People run huge cams with garbage OE lifters and 450lb open pressure. I think they are nuts, but they live. The stock lifters are pretty impressive for the money and good enough imo for a mild or short term build...but i don't use them. To me it's worth it to run better.
keep in mind too that with short travels you have very little tolerance on pushrods using non-adjustable rockers. I have built my motor with two different cams and each build requires ordering 5-6 custom lengths to hit the middle while hot. Each of my rockers, pedestals, valves are a fixed pair with a single pushrod that goes with it as they are binned with 5 thou tolerance. So if you go short travel, be prepared to measure every single valve.
Leak down on stock lifters has very high tolerances and each valve effectively gets different lift at a given RPM in this situation. Better lifters have tighter tolerances on leak down which will translate to even valve excursion. That said, as mentioned in this thread and all over the site lift is not the major controller of flow, thus don't expect big HP gains. Just more longevity and a little easier on the valvetrain. People run huge cams with garbage OE lifters and 450lb open pressure. I think they are nuts, but they live. The stock lifters are pretty impressive for the money and good enough imo for a mild or short term build...but i don't use them. To me it's worth it to run better.
keep in mind too that with short travels you have very little tolerance on pushrods using non-adjustable rockers. I have built my motor with two different cams and each build requires ordering 5-6 custom lengths to hit the middle while hot. Each of my rockers, pedestals, valves are a fixed pair with a single pushrod that goes with it as they are binned with 5 thou tolerance. So if you go short travel, be prepared to measure every single valve.
Last edited by therabidweasel; Nov 11, 2014 at 07:55 PM.
