My E46 LS1 build! a few questions...
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 35
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My E46 LS1 build! a few questions... greetings guys! been lurking the forums for several months now and decided to try to tackle the LS1 swap mid-2014, so I started collecting parts. I have about 90% of what I need, but still have plenty of parts to collect. I basically have a 5.3L (was going to use this originally), an incomplete LS1 (basically a block) and a separate LS1 block.
my plan is to reuse my 862 5.3L heads on the LS1 block. i've purchased LS1 2" intake valves to swap onto the 862 heads. having those professionally done. i have a FAST lsx intake manifold, 102mm. i also picked up an ls6 cam for $50 and will soon be acquiring new springs/lifters/arms for the head. purchased an AC-delete accessory bracket kit that also relocates the alternator to the passenger side and the power steering higher up. motor mounts i'm using are from dirty dingo and will be using CXracing's transmission crossmember. i'm hoping to do E85 from the getgo and hoping to hit somewhere around the 430-450 range (if that's possible) after all boltons/pulleys/intake mani/e85/etc.
i also acquired a T56 but it's the LT1 style, so I will have to convert that to the f-body stuff too.
if you guys want to see some of the videos and blogs i've already started on the project, you can check out the following links:
the engine will be going in this car. i know it's not a lot of your cup of tea, but it's my pride and joy and it's been my showcar for the past several years. a lot of the stuff on this car, i've built myself including the front widebody, the rear widebody, the sideskirts, the rear diffuser, the front splitter, the wheels, the wing mounts, everything:
but anyways! onto my questions:
my plan is to reuse my 862 5.3L heads on the LS1 block. i've purchased LS1 2" intake valves to swap onto the 862 heads. having those professionally done. i have a FAST lsx intake manifold, 102mm. i also picked up an ls6 cam for $50 and will soon be acquiring new springs/lifters/arms for the head. purchased an AC-delete accessory bracket kit that also relocates the alternator to the passenger side and the power steering higher up. motor mounts i'm using are from dirty dingo and will be using CXracing's transmission crossmember. i'm hoping to do E85 from the getgo and hoping to hit somewhere around the 430-450 range (if that's possible) after all boltons/pulleys/intake mani/e85/etc.
i also acquired a T56 but it's the LT1 style, so I will have to convert that to the f-body stuff too.
if you guys want to see some of the videos and blogs i've already started on the project, you can check out the following links:
the engine will be going in this car. i know it's not a lot of your cup of tea, but it's my pride and joy and it's been my showcar for the past several years. a lot of the stuff on this car, i've built myself including the front widebody, the rear widebody, the sideskirts, the rear diffuser, the front splitter, the wheels, the wing mounts, everything:
but anyways! onto my questions:
- i've begun assembling the crankshaft and mains, but i noticed that the mains i'm using (from the 5.3 block) do not fit exactly right on the LS1 block. i know the mains are the same across all the LS motors, but it doesn't seat properly without a few taps of a rubber mallet. is this normal? i haven't torqued anything yet because i need to pick up a few replacement bolts, but i'm a little worried that this will cause vibration/bearing issues later in the future. do the mains require any sort of machine work?
- are there any differences between the LT1 T56 and the f-body T56 clutch/flywheel/pressure plate?
- what options are there for oil filter relocation? the dirty dingo mounts are great and have plenty of adjustability, but the oil filter location totally cuts out the driver side mount from adjusting and i'd rather just relocate it now anyway since it's in such a tight spot.
- what is the best way to remove a broken bolt in the head where the rocker arm goes? my buddy snapped the bolt used in one of those ebay valve spring tools and i don't want to risk drilling/extracting and ruining the threads. is a reputable machine shop my only option here?
- i'm planning to have a local fabricator tackle the engine mounts for me. a lot of the swap will be done in my garage. for those of you who do retrofit swaps, what methods do you recommend for lining up the engine and making sure it's as true and straight as can be? besides using a level...
- the gear on the crankshaft for the timing chain is hard to remove. i've tried searching but couldn't find any concrete information. is there a pin somewhere that i'm missing that needs to be removed for the gear to slide out?
- are there any E85 guys here running dual tune? i want to do E85 but i also drive the car to shows a lot in los angeles and don't want to get stuck somewhere just because i couldn't find an E85 station around.
- are there any street-legal turbo kits out there? or is everything out there pretty much off-road use only?
First let me just say, What a beautiful project
The mains usually go in with a few taps from a wooden mallet. Make sure they are going in correct. The mains have numbers 1-5. 1-4 all face the rear of the crank and the 5th main faces the front main seal.
Rear of Crank
5
4
3
2
1
Front of crank
this is how you should be able to read em if the engine is upside down in a stand.
the LT1 style has an attachment for a pivot bolt for a clutch fork. The main shaft is the same, the input shaft is longer on the LS1 variant. I believe one is a pull and the other is a push variant. So big NO.
Just use an extractor, if you happen to "ruin" the threads, just tap it. Or get another head, they are dime a dozen.
Depends on what pcm you end up going with and what operating system, but you CAN run an e85 dual tune if you use an electronic throttle OS since you mentioned you are going FI. You will need a continental flex fuel sensor, and a pigtail for it. 1 wire is ground, 1 power, and 1 signal that goes in the pcm.
You're in for a headache
1. i've begun assembling the crankshaft and mains, but i noticed that the mains i'm using (from the 5.3 block) do not fit exactly right on the LS1 block. i know the mains are the same across all the LS motors, but it doesn't seat properly without a few taps of a rubber mallet. is this normal? i haven't torqued anything yet because i need to pick up a few replacement bolts, but i'm a little worried that this will cause vibration/bearing issues later in the future. do the mains require any sort of machine work?
Rear of Crank
5
4
3
2
1
Front of crank
this is how you should be able to read em if the engine is upside down in a stand.
2. are there any differences between the LT1 T56 and the f-body T56 clutch/flywheel/pressure plate?
what is the best way to remove a broken bolt in the head where the rocker arm goes? my buddy snapped the bolt used in one of those ebay valve spring tools and i don't want to risk drilling/extracting and ruining the threads. is a reputable machine shop my only option here?
are there any E85 guys here running dual tune? i want to do E85 but i also drive the car to shows a lot in los angeles and don't want to get stuck somewhere just because i couldn't find an E85 station around.
are there any street-legal turbo kits out there? or is everything out there pretty much off-road use only?
are there any street-legal turbo kits out there? or is everything out there pretty much off-road use only?
You're in for a headache
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
thank you!
ah yeah i did see the stampings. i didn't realize they had them before but fortunately i placed them in the order they were removed for later installation, then when i cleaned them with chemdip i noticed the stamps lol
ah that's what was different, the input shaft. i knew it was one of those haha
the problem is it's hard to find 5.3 heads around. even 5.7 heads are hard to source locally. i know i can find em plenty on ebay, but i'm curious to see what i can do with these 5.3 since i basically paid money for them and the accessories and ditched the old 5.3 block.
darn, my setup will be a drive-by-wire. is electronic throttle really necessary? i can't just hotwire a switch in there somewhere?
The mains usually go in with a few taps from a wooden mallet. Make sure they are going in correct. The mains have numbers 1-5. 1-4 all face the rear of the crank and the 5th main faces the front main seal.
Rear of Crank
5
4
3
2
1
Front of crank
this is how you should be able to read em if the engine is upside down in a stand.
Rear of Crank
5
4
3
2
1
Front of crank
this is how you should be able to read em if the engine is upside down in a stand.
Depends on what pcm you end up going with and what operating system, but you CAN run an e85 dual tune if you use an electronic throttle OS since you mentioned you are going FI. You will need a continental flex fuel sensor, and a pigtail for it. 1 wire is ground, 1 power, and 1 signal that goes in the pcm.
You're in for a headache
You're in for a headache
+1 on a beautiful project. Looks like you have a killer build and some serious fab skills. I had a Flossman Widebody 2002 M3 on BBS LM7 (discontinued sizes) but sold it to afford grad school...still miss that car today. The buyer is a Canadian dude that spent some extra cash and made it into this:http://illmotion.com/im-feature-dani...ls-bmw-m3-gtr/
I have seen some guys do the dual tune but I could not help you in the least since I am an idiot with that stuff. Have you considered using a system that has fuel table and table blending capabilities like Holley, Haltech Platinum Sports, or ProEfi? I had the ProEfi in my old setup and loved it but take no credit for the tune or tweaking as that was handled by a professional. Pulled up to a station with 1/4 tank of 93 pump and added E85 till I filled it and it worked its magic to adjust....and visa versa.
I have seen some guys do the dual tune but I could not help you in the least since I am an idiot with that stuff. Have you considered using a system that has fuel table and table blending capabilities like Holley, Haltech Platinum Sports, or ProEfi? I had the ProEfi in my old setup and loved it but take no credit for the tune or tweaking as that was handled by a professional. Pulled up to a station with 1/4 tank of 93 pump and added E85 till I filled it and it worked its magic to adjust....and visa versa.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
+1 on a beautiful project. Looks like you have a killer build and some serious fab skills. I had a Flossman Widebody 2002 M3 on BBS LM7 (discontinued sizes) but sold it to afford grad school...still miss that car today. The buyer is a Canadian dude that spent some extra cash and made it into this:http://illmotion.com/im-feature-dani...ls-bmw-m3-gtr/
I have seen some guys do the dual tune but I could not help you in the least since I am an idiot with that stuff. Have you considered using a system that has fuel table and table blending capabilities like Holley, Haltech Platinum Sports, or ProEfi? I had the ProEfi in my old setup and loved it but take no credit for the tune or tweaking as that was handled by a professional. Pulled up to a station with 1/4 tank of 93 pump and added E85 till I filled it and it worked its magic to adjust....and visa versa.
I have seen some guys do the dual tune but I could not help you in the least since I am an idiot with that stuff. Have you considered using a system that has fuel table and table blending capabilities like Holley, Haltech Platinum Sports, or ProEfi? I had the ProEfi in my old setup and loved it but take no credit for the tune or tweaking as that was handled by a professional. Pulled up to a station with 1/4 tank of 93 pump and added E85 till I filled it and it worked its magic to adjust....and visa versa.
but no i haven't considered that system before, but definitely something i'll look into. what kind of gains did you see when you ran 25% 93 and 75% e85? were you able to run just purely 93% as well?
Haha yeah I miss her and when I had her the trunk and hood were CF and the LM7's were silver, Dan painted the body all red and has a few sets of rims. He took the car to a whole new level but he has the funds to play lol.
I personally love the ProEfi...not very user friendly unless you spend lots of time with the system but if you wanted a good contact you can PM me and I will direct you the man on this topic. If you have ever heard of M&S Performance (Supra shop) those guys mostly all use ProEfi and make some monsters at that place. The system has so many feedback and safety features its insane. I am sure youtube has some videos of the ethanol/flex-fuel content at work.
To be perfectly honest at the dyno everyone I know would run a pump, use up the gas, then switch over to E85 and fill up. I never got to take the car from the shop as the setup was parted and sold off to help fund my LLC. However I know many guys running my exact setup and literally fill up E85 locally (about 12 stations within 20 miles) and drive out a few states and fill up at whatever pump they get to. The system analyzes the ethanol content then switches parameters set by the tuners range.
You can absolutely run pump gas and whatever mixture of E-blend that you would like as long as the tuner has those fuel blend ranges set up. You can run methanol, C16...literally any fuel combination as long as they are within the parameter range.
One example with my buddy Pauls car, stock 2JZ, PTE 7175 made 520rwhp on 93 pump. Didnt run out the fuel then drove to the station and got E85 which was more like E82. By the time it was all blended together the contents were closer to E80 and the outcome was 766rwhp at 31 psi.
I personally love the ProEfi...not very user friendly unless you spend lots of time with the system but if you wanted a good contact you can PM me and I will direct you the man on this topic. If you have ever heard of M&S Performance (Supra shop) those guys mostly all use ProEfi and make some monsters at that place. The system has so many feedback and safety features its insane. I am sure youtube has some videos of the ethanol/flex-fuel content at work.
To be perfectly honest at the dyno everyone I know would run a pump, use up the gas, then switch over to E85 and fill up. I never got to take the car from the shop as the setup was parted and sold off to help fund my LLC. However I know many guys running my exact setup and literally fill up E85 locally (about 12 stations within 20 miles) and drive out a few states and fill up at whatever pump they get to. The system analyzes the ethanol content then switches parameters set by the tuners range.
You can absolutely run pump gas and whatever mixture of E-blend that you would like as long as the tuner has those fuel blend ranges set up. You can run methanol, C16...literally any fuel combination as long as they are within the parameter range.
One example with my buddy Pauls car, stock 2JZ, PTE 7175 made 520rwhp on 93 pump. Didnt run out the fuel then drove to the station and got E85 which was more like E82. By the time it was all blended together the contents were closer to E80 and the outcome was 766rwhp at 31 psi.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
You can absolutely run pump gas and whatever mixture of E-blend that you would like as long as the tuner has those fuel blend ranges set up. You can run methanol, C16...literally any fuel combination as long as they are within the parameter range.
One example with my buddy Pauls car, stock 2JZ, PTE 7175 made 520rwhp on 93 pump. Didnt run out the fuel then drove to the station and got E85 which was more like E82. By the time it was all blended together the contents were closer to E80 and the outcome was 766rwhp at 31 psi.
One example with my buddy Pauls car, stock 2JZ, PTE 7175 made 520rwhp on 93 pump. Didnt run out the fuel then drove to the station and got E85 which was more like E82. By the time it was all blended together the contents were closer to E80 and the outcome was 766rwhp at 31 psi.
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For sure man its expensive but worthwhile. I can go on about the features but dont want to bore you. Let me know if you need any information and I will help where I can.
For sure subscribed to this thread cant wait to see you finalize the beast. I really like what you did with that widebody and all of the fab work on your car.
For sure subscribed to this thread cant wait to see you finalize the beast. I really like what you did with that widebody and all of the fab work on your car.
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Teching In
Joined: Aug 2014
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but anyways! onto my questions:
- i've begun assembling the crankshaft and mains, but i noticed that the mains i'm using (from the 5.3 block) do not fit exactly right on the LS1 block. i know the mains are the same across all the LS motors, but it doesn't seat properly without a few taps of a rubber mallet. is this normal? i haven't torqued anything yet because i need to pick up a few replacement bolts, but i'm a little worried that this will cause vibration/bearing issues later in the future. do the mains require any sort of machine work?
If you're installing main caps from a different engine you should get them line bored at a machine shop. - are there any differences between the LT1 T56 and the f-body T56 clutch/flywheel/pressure plate?
- what options are there for oil filter relocation? the dirty dingo mounts are great and have plenty of adjustability, but the oil filter location totally cuts out the driver side mount from adjusting and i'd rather just relocate it now anyway since it's in such a tight spot.
- what is the best way to remove a broken bolt in the head where the rocker arm goes? my buddy snapped the bolt used in one of those ebay valve spring tools and i don't want to risk drilling/extracting and ruining the threads. is a reputable machine shop my only option here?
Just use an extractor and take your time, Shouldn't be too difficult - i'm planning to have a local fabricator tackle the engine mounts for me. a lot of the swap will be done in my garage. for those of you who do retrofit swaps, what methods do you recommend for lining up the engine and making sure it's as true and straight as can be? besides using a level...
- the gear on the crankshaft for the timing chain is hard to remove. i've tried searching but couldn't find any concrete information. is there a pin somewhere that i'm missing that needs to be removed for the gear to slide out?
http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177906 - are there any E85 guys here running dual tune? i want to do E85 but i also drive the car to shows a lot in los angeles and don't want to get stuck somewhere just because i couldn't find an E85 station around.
- are there any street-legal turbo kits out there? or is everything out there pretty much off-road use only?
Kit? You're deff not going to find anything that's going to fit your application. There are kits for f body's, trucks, etc.. stuff that originally came with an LS1. If you're wanting to go turbo, good luck. it's going to involve a LOT of fabrication. How are you planning on keeping this CARB legal? I see you're in California.
Hear me out on this, it will be CHEAPER and EASIER to just sell everything you have, literally EVERYTHING and buy a complete drop out from an F-Body for $3500. I have an E36 and I wish I didn't try piecing it together as I'm at the price of a complete dropout already and that would've been 100x easier to do than what I did.
But, since you have everything already... Sell the LT1 T-56 and get a LS1 T-56, converting is not worth the headache.
There are swap kits out there, look at CX Racing (yes the ebay brand) I have their mounts, exceptional quality believe it or not.
But, since you have everything already... Sell the LT1 T-56 and get a LS1 T-56, converting is not worth the headache.
There are swap kits out there, look at CX Racing (yes the ebay brand) I have their mounts, exceptional quality believe it or not.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 35
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Hear me out on this, it will be CHEAPER and EASIER to just sell everything you have, literally EVERYTHING and buy a complete drop out from an F-Body for $3500. I have an E36 and I wish I didn't try piecing it together as I'm at the price of a complete dropout already and that would've been 100x easier to do than what I did.
But, since you have everything already... Sell the LT1 T-56 and get a LS1 T-56, converting is not worth the headache.
There are swap kits out there, look at CX Racing (yes the ebay brand) I have their mounts, exceptional quality believe it or not.
But, since you have everything already... Sell the LT1 T-56 and get a LS1 T-56, converting is not worth the headache.
There are swap kits out there, look at CX Racing (yes the ebay brand) I have their mounts, exceptional quality believe it or not.
people tell me that ALL the time, but where's the fun in that? i'm a hands-on kinda guy and LOVE the collecting/assembling phase and having such a blast putting the engine together. the T56 is a little hard to source so I figured i'll spend the money on an LT1 and have even more fun rebuilding that. I've seen the CXracing crossmember and i'm considering it. the vorshlag is way too expensive lol
The issue with collecting and assembling these engines is that people want ridiculous amounts of money for individual items, where has you can probably save 25% of the cost by buying a drop out running engine (also piece of mind that the engine runs).
I know it's your build, but I'm just give you first hand advice. Awesome car though, looks badass!
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2015
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I hear ya, I'm a HUGE hands on guy myself - here's my build log thus far on bimmer forums - http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...Car-S50-to-LS1
The issue with collecting and assembling these engines is that people want ridiculous amounts of money for individual items, where has you can probably save 25% of the cost by buying a drop out running engine (also piece of mind that the engine runs).
I know it's your build, but I'm just give you first hand advice. Awesome car though, looks badass!
The issue with collecting and assembling these engines is that people want ridiculous amounts of money for individual items, where has you can probably save 25% of the cost by buying a drop out running engine (also piece of mind that the engine runs).
I know it's your build, but I'm just give you first hand advice. Awesome car though, looks badass!
you're project looks cool though, i'll have to go through it later! are you using the PCM as a piggyback to the stock DME?
i actually saved some money. i picked up a decent lm7 block off a local guy for a few hundreds and ended up reusing some of the accessories, crankshaft, mains and rods. picked up an ls1 block and rebuild kit and everything else will be aftermarket parts that i would have bought anyway (lsx manifold, e85 stuff, underdrive pulleys, etc). so it's not too bad.
you're project looks cool though, i'll have to go through it later! are you using the PCM as a piggyback to the stock DME?
you're project looks cool though, i'll have to go through it later! are you using the PCM as a piggyback to the stock DME?
Thanks! No, you don't need the DME anymore once you install the LS PCM. My car will be ran entirely off the PCM, so EWS and all can be deleted. There are only (I think) 11 wires or so I need to get the car to run!
I have a friend who has an 99 323 and is going to sell to me for $400. Just needs a transmission. I just want to do an ls swap and use as daily driver. If I wanted to keep the security can I use the dme and gm pcm side by side?
Thread Starter
Teching In
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a few updates with the build! had some parts gold-plated recently
here's a video if you want to see the plating work up close!
http://iconosquare.com/p/983775410986242667_22671619
*edit: don't pay any mind to the ebay filters. i'm only using the pipe. going to match them with some active autowerke filters later this week!
here's a video if you want to see the plating work up close!
http://iconosquare.com/p/983775410986242667_22671619
*edit: don't pay any mind to the ebay filters. i'm only using the pipe. going to match them with some active autowerke filters later this week!
Thread Starter
Teching In
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so it's been a while since i've updated this. just wanted to update anyone who was subscribed to the progress!
one of the turbos
pulling the old motor out!
test-fitting the cxracing mounts. not bad for the price.
scram speed engine lift plate finally arrives. wish i had this when putting the motor in
old manifold didn't fit very well. decided to go twin turbo instead since it would essentially be easier to fit. kinda ironic haha. had to buy another on3 turbo though.
one of the turbos
pulling the old motor out!
test-fitting the cxracing mounts. not bad for the price.
scram speed engine lift plate finally arrives. wish i had this when putting the motor in
old manifold didn't fit very well. decided to go twin turbo instead since it would essentially be easier to fit. kinda ironic haha. had to buy another on3 turbo though.
