MMS 220 heads....Info, Pics, and discussion inside
08-24-2015 | 06:23 PM
#242
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,827
Likes: 234
From: Coast of San Mateo County Between Pacifica & HMB
Just got home. 412 Max HP and 384 Max Torque. Proxses Tuning in Centerville Ohio did an outstanding job. Car runs great and pulls hard and any RPM - I'm very happy with it. It's exactly what I wanted. I posted a couple of pics, car on the rollers and the Dyno Report. I know some of you are waiting so I won't say any more right now.
FAST 92/LS2TB & LTs, exceeded my predictions of 50+ RWHP & 30-40 lb ft!
I made in Post #115
Car must drive awesome!
08-24-2015 | 07:01 PM
#244
Thread Starter
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 781
Likes: 448
=)
__________________
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
08-24-2015 | 07:46 PM
#245
TECH Resident
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 751
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Good question....
I've hit this topic on the different forums and its usually received with mixed reactions because it goes against the grain of what most people have read (or no reactions....Im the post closer occasionally....LOL)
Everyone (the "Internet") says good heads don't matter on a blower/boosted combo "because air is forced in".....how many times have you guys seen that regurgitated.
Its BS....in fact I could argue just the opposite and that it matters more. The principles of an N/A and boosted engine are very similar.....in fact air is also "forced in" with a normally aspirated combo but it only has the force/weight of one atmosphere pushing on it.
And that leads me to the opportunity to blow up another Internet misnomer which is "N/A engines suck the air in and its forced in with a supercharger". NOPE....both are forced in but if your running 10 pounds of boost the air is forced in with that much additional force).
The other dynamic in favor of a good head in this argument (and why it pays you dividends potentially over and above an N/A application) is while you can certainly cram more air in with a supercharger, turbo, etc., your exhaust port doesn't really get a helping hand so a head with a really good efficient high flowing exhaust is going to really help bump the output and compound the gains of your really good efficient intake port.
In summary, a forced induction engine places a higher demand on your cylinder heads than a normally aspirated engine simply due to the fact your trying to move more air in and more air out of the engine with the help of the supercharger. A head that's less efficient will show higher boost (simply a measure of restriction) and less power....a head that's more efficient will show less boost and more power (better!).....and if you pulley up to the same boost the less efficient head was making (assuming you can), you would have more power yet from the compounding I'm discussing....Win-win
While this was way out in left field (at least in my 220 thread).....it makes for an interesting topic and one I dont mind clarifying in an effort to help people view this deal in a different light. When the smoke clears....a bad azz set of heads is always going to be the driving force behind the combination.....N/A or boosted....and I often refer to them as "the star of the show" and the cornerstone of every build....with every other component playing a supporting role (the cam coming in a close second.....LOL).
All helping to make it alot more fun doing this!
Cheers,
Tony
I've hit this topic on the different forums and its usually received with mixed reactions because it goes against the grain of what most people have read (or no reactions....Im the post closer occasionally....LOL)
Everyone (the "Internet") says good heads don't matter on a blower/boosted combo "because air is forced in".....how many times have you guys seen that regurgitated.
Its BS....in fact I could argue just the opposite and that it matters more. The principles of an N/A and boosted engine are very similar.....in fact air is also "forced in" with a normally aspirated combo but it only has the force/weight of one atmosphere pushing on it.
And that leads me to the opportunity to blow up another Internet misnomer which is "N/A engines suck the air in and its forced in with a supercharger". NOPE....both are forced in but if your running 10 pounds of boost the air is forced in with that much additional force).
The other dynamic in favor of a good head in this argument (and why it pays you dividends potentially over and above an N/A application) is while you can certainly cram more air in with a supercharger, turbo, etc., your exhaust port doesn't really get a helping hand so a head with a really good efficient high flowing exhaust is going to really help bump the output and compound the gains of your really good efficient intake port.
In summary, a forced induction engine places a higher demand on your cylinder heads than a normally aspirated engine simply due to the fact your trying to move more air in and more air out of the engine with the help of the supercharger. A head that's less efficient will show higher boost (simply a measure of restriction) and less power....a head that's more efficient will show less boost and more power (better!).....and if you pulley up to the same boost the less efficient head was making (assuming you can), you would have more power yet from the compounding I'm discussing....Win-win
While this was way out in left field (at least in my 220 thread).....it makes for an interesting topic and one I dont mind clarifying in an effort to help people view this deal in a different light. When the smoke clears....a bad azz set of heads is always going to be the driving force behind the combination.....N/A or boosted....and I often refer to them as "the star of the show" and the cornerstone of every build....with every other component playing a supporting role (the cam coming in a close second.....LOL).
All helping to make it alot more fun doing this!
Cheers,
Tony
08-24-2015 | 09:57 PM
#246
TECH Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 448
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
MMS 220 heads....Info, Pics, and discussion inside
Originally Posted by Tony Mamo
Darth V8r already has it.....its some slight tune tweaking, a clutch, and a dual exhaust away.....LOL
=)
=)
08-27-2015 | 10:14 PM
#247
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
From: Wichita, KS
Also, a question for Tony.
The difference between running a ported FAST 92 VS ported 102 --??
The reason I'm considering the 92 is the stock fuel rails and injectors would fit, and from what I've read, it fits the car a little better (no worries of water pump clearance issues, etc).
I'd like to run the car through a few heat cycles before I get it dyno tuned, and with the 36b injectors, I wouldn't be able to start the car. I also want to make sure the car starts and has no leaks before I take it to get tuned.... Not that I know the car will even stay running with the SD tune it has now...
Thoughts?
09-04-2015 | 04:06 PM
#249
Launching!
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 257
Likes: 1
I've been driving the car now for a little over a week and I'm getting a lot of positive comments. Pulled into O'Reilly Autoparts the other day and two employees were out front taking a break and one asked: "That sounds sweet - what's in it". At the tire shop today and one of the techs said: "Your car sounds great - I love it". If driving the car doesn't put a grin on your face, these comments sure will! Thanks Tony!
09-04-2015 | 07:35 PM
#250
I've been driving the car now for a little over a week and I'm getting a lot of positive comments. Pulled into O'Reilly Autoparts the other day and two employees were out front taking a break and one asked: "That sounds sweet - what's in it". At the tire shop today and one of the techs said: "Your car sounds great - I love it". If driving the car doesn't put a grin on your face, these comments sure will! Thanks Tony!
09-04-2015 | 07:41 PM
#251
I've been driving the car now for a little over a week and I'm getting a lot of positive comments. Pulled into O'Reilly Autoparts the other day and two employees were out front taking a break and one asked: "That sounds sweet - what's in it". At the tire shop today and one of the techs said: "Your car sounds great - I love it". If driving the car doesn't put a grin on your face, these comments sure will! Thanks Tony!
09-05-2015 | 09:53 AM
#254
Launching!
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 257
Likes: 1
I'm still using the OEM converter. The cam is mild and I haven't seen the need to change to a higher stall. I may consider one if the trans goes because of the extra power. Some have said the trans could hold up for quite a long time and others say to save for a rebuild. We'll see!
Last edited by unit; 09-05-2015 at 09:54 AM. Reason: correct spelling
11-09-2015 | 03:49 AM
#258
Just thought I'd mention, I got back from a business trip and am finally able to tune the car.
Previous setup was:
PRC 5.3L 2.5
SBE
.051" HG
.043" Quench
TSP 228r 114+4
FAST102/102
419whp/370rwtq (soggy *** bottom end)
26* peak timing 99% on the VE. 1* buffer from knock. Saw a little retard at 28*.
Current:
SBE
Mamofied 220's
11.56SCR
8.96DCR
.040" HG
.033" Quench
225/227 114+4
LS2 intake/Holley 90mm (waiting on Vararam cathedral, long wait I know)
No dyno numbers
What I'd like to note is the difference in tuning. With the previous setup that was less than 8:1DCR I was limited to 26* peak timing and had to pull timing in other areas like 6th gear freeway uphill.
So far with the current setup I am up to 28* peak timing with absolutely no signs of knock anywhere. It's very obvious that I need more timing everywhere with this setup. My VE is up to about 113% at peak tq and that was with the previous 26* timing. Inj duty is up 5% with a smaller cam and LS2 intake. Going to play around some more this week. All I can say is that I'm quite happy with the heads so far!!!
Previous setup was:
PRC 5.3L 2.5
SBE
.051" HG
.043" Quench
TSP 228r 114+4
FAST102/102
419whp/370rwtq (soggy *** bottom end)
26* peak timing 99% on the VE. 1* buffer from knock. Saw a little retard at 28*.
Current:
SBE
Mamofied 220's
11.56SCR
8.96DCR
.040" HG
.033" Quench
225/227 114+4
LS2 intake/Holley 90mm (waiting on Vararam cathedral, long wait I know)
No dyno numbers
What I'd like to note is the difference in tuning. With the previous setup that was less than 8:1DCR I was limited to 26* peak timing and had to pull timing in other areas like 6th gear freeway uphill.
So far with the current setup I am up to 28* peak timing with absolutely no signs of knock anywhere. It's very obvious that I need more timing everywhere with this setup. My VE is up to about 113% at peak tq and that was with the previous 26* timing. Inj duty is up 5% with a smaller cam and LS2 intake. Going to play around some more this week. All I can say is that I'm quite happy with the heads so far!!!