Cam failure only 4,000mi LS1
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix, AZ
Cam failure only 4,000mi LS1 FNG here, could use some advice. My 05 LS1 developed a tick last month and I pulled it apart to find a few LS7 Lifter were in bad shape, 3 to be exact. My $450 CompCam forged roller cam looks like ****.
Specs:
383 ci Fully Forged Stroker Engine 10.3:1 Compression
ARP Main Studs
ARP Head Bolts
Custom Dyno Tune
Completely Forged, blue printed and balanced internals
Ported and Polish 799 heads
LS7 Lifters
Custom Blower CompCam (215/230 .601/.579 117 LSA)
Patriot Dual Valve Springs
Comp Cams 1.75 Roller Rockers
OBX Long Tube Headers
Flowmaster Super 44 Exhaust
I use a hi flow oil pump and run Valvoline 20w50 oil and use this truck as a daily driver 3-4 times per week. Valve Springs and oil galleys are within spec.
Do I chalk this up to a bad cam? Anyone have any recommendations on other brands? CompCam is reviewing my info/receipts and said they may warranty it (less than a year old).
Specs:
383 ci Fully Forged Stroker Engine 10.3:1 Compression
ARP Main Studs
ARP Head Bolts
Custom Dyno Tune
Completely Forged, blue printed and balanced internals
Ported and Polish 799 heads
LS7 Lifters
Custom Blower CompCam (215/230 .601/.579 117 LSA)
Patriot Dual Valve Springs
Comp Cams 1.75 Roller Rockers
OBX Long Tube Headers
Flowmaster Super 44 Exhaust
I use a hi flow oil pump and run Valvoline 20w50 oil and use this truck as a daily driver 3-4 times per week. Valve Springs and oil galleys are within spec.
Do I chalk this up to a bad cam? Anyone have any recommendations on other brands? CompCam is reviewing my info/receipts and said they may warranty it (less than a year old).
Their hardening process has come into question before. The LS7 lifters aren't great either.
The roller rockers are heavy. The Patriot springs **** the bed after being used (add to that a blower configuration that reduces the effective spring pressure at the valve by the amount of boost you're running.)
All of those would contribute to your issues. If the rockers are heavy causing float and the valves aren't holding everything in contact, then the pushrods could be literally vaulting the lifter off the cam (loft), causing the lifters and cam lobe to crash back into each other when the pushrod returns to normal, then that would cause the issue you see as well.
Take your pick on the issue.
The roller rockers are heavy. The Patriot springs **** the bed after being used (add to that a blower configuration that reduces the effective spring pressure at the valve by the amount of boost you're running.)
All of those would contribute to your issues. If the rockers are heavy causing float and the valves aren't holding everything in contact, then the pushrods could be literally vaulting the lifter off the cam (loft), causing the lifters and cam lobe to crash back into each other when the pushrod returns to normal, then that would cause the issue you see as well.
Take your pick on the issue.
That doesn't look line an LS7 lifter... These are LS7 lifters: http://www.briantooleyracing.com/del...x12499225.html
Looking at the lifter it certainly doesnt look like one at first glance. However look at the edges of the lifter and how jagged they are... it almost looks like the whole end was encapsulated like an ls7 and they broke off.
either way jake is right, theres a whole lot of stuff goin on there. How old were the springs? patriots were known to wear out fast. also why the roller rockers? .600 is pushing the stock rocker geometry depending on who you talk to but still roller rockers are very heavy and are going to put strain on the valvetrain.
also comp has had a recently history of some bad cores so that could play into it. personally i would get the new comp cam if they are going to give you one, then sell it and get one from cam motion which is made from an 8620 core and comes with a cam dr report. then after that I would upgrade to an 11/32 pushrod and a pac 1207x or something similar. that will help keep the valvetrain in control then to top it all off a good set of drop in or link bar lifters. to deal with the heavy rockers and springs i would lookat a johnson 2110 or 2116. the morel 5315 and ls7s were never made to take on dual springs, and roller rockers.
if you keep the rockers then imo the johnson lifters are a necessity with an aftermarket cam, then do the pac 1207x springs 11/32 pushrods or 3/8 double tapered to 5/16. if you choose to go back to stock rockers i'd do a set of psi 1511 springs or btr duals then either the morel 5315 or johnson 2110 (preferably, if you can afford it) the poushrod choice would stay the same
either way jake is right, theres a whole lot of stuff goin on there. How old were the springs? patriots were known to wear out fast. also why the roller rockers? .600 is pushing the stock rocker geometry depending on who you talk to but still roller rockers are very heavy and are going to put strain on the valvetrain.
also comp has had a recently history of some bad cores so that could play into it. personally i would get the new comp cam if they are going to give you one, then sell it and get one from cam motion which is made from an 8620 core and comes with a cam dr report. then after that I would upgrade to an 11/32 pushrod and a pac 1207x or something similar. that will help keep the valvetrain in control then to top it all off a good set of drop in or link bar lifters. to deal with the heavy rockers and springs i would lookat a johnson 2110 or 2116. the morel 5315 and ls7s were never made to take on dual springs, and roller rockers.
if you keep the rockers then imo the johnson lifters are a necessity with an aftermarket cam, then do the pac 1207x springs 11/32 pushrods or 3/8 double tapered to 5/16. if you choose to go back to stock rockers i'd do a set of psi 1511 springs or btr duals then either the morel 5315 or johnson 2110 (preferably, if you can afford it) the poushrod choice would stay the same
Lifter failure only 4,000mi LS1 You didn't have a cam failure, you had a lifter failure(s).
Patriot springs with roller rockers on a cam lobe as aggressive as yours is a disaster for sure. We've seen this type of failure several times with used Patriot springs.
If the lifters aren't genuine GM then that can contribute to a failure as well.
Patriot springs with roller rockers on a cam lobe as aggressive as yours is a disaster for sure. We've seen this type of failure several times with used Patriot springs.
If the lifters aren't genuine GM then that can contribute to a failure as well.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix, AZ
Looking at the lifter it certainly doesnt look like one at first glance. However look at the edges of the lifter and how jagged they are... it almost looks like the whole end was encapsulated like an ls7 and they broke off.
either way jake is right, theres a whole lot of stuff goin on there. How old were the springs? patriots were known to wear out fast. also why the roller rockers? .600 is pushing the stock rocker geometry depending on who you talk to but still roller rockers are very heavy and are going to put strain on the valvetrain.
also comp has had a recently history of some bad cores so that could play into it. personally i would get the new comp cam if they are going to give you one, then sell it and get one from cam motion which is made from an 8620 core and comes with a cam dr report. then after that I would upgrade to an 11/32 pushrod and a pac 1207x or something similar. that will help keep the valvetrain in control then to top it all off a good set of drop in or link bar lifters. to deal with the heavy rockers and springs i would lookat a johnson 2110 or 2116. the morel 5315 and ls7s were never made to take on dual springs, and roller rockers.
if you keep the rockers then imo the johnson lifters are a necessity with an aftermarket cam, then do the pac 1207x springs 11/32 pushrods or 3/8 double tapered to 5/16. if you choose to go back to stock rockers i'd do a set of psi 1511 springs or btr duals then either the morel 5315 or johnson 2110 (preferably, if you can afford it) the poushrod choice would stay the same
either way jake is right, theres a whole lot of stuff goin on there. How old were the springs? patriots were known to wear out fast. also why the roller rockers? .600 is pushing the stock rocker geometry depending on who you talk to but still roller rockers are very heavy and are going to put strain on the valvetrain.
also comp has had a recently history of some bad cores so that could play into it. personally i would get the new comp cam if they are going to give you one, then sell it and get one from cam motion which is made from an 8620 core and comes with a cam dr report. then after that I would upgrade to an 11/32 pushrod and a pac 1207x or something similar. that will help keep the valvetrain in control then to top it all off a good set of drop in or link bar lifters. to deal with the heavy rockers and springs i would lookat a johnson 2110 or 2116. the morel 5315 and ls7s were never made to take on dual springs, and roller rockers.
if you keep the rockers then imo the johnson lifters are a necessity with an aftermarket cam, then do the pac 1207x springs 11/32 pushrods or 3/8 double tapered to 5/16. if you choose to go back to stock rockers i'd do a set of psi 1511 springs or btr duals then either the morel 5315 or johnson 2110 (preferably, if you can afford it) the poushrod choice would stay the same
These are the springs I'm running (new)
http://www.briantooleyracing.com/650...-pat-8401.html
Last edited by Chad1234; Jun 29, 2015 at 06:06 PM.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix, AZ
You didn't have a cam failure, you had a lifter failure(s).
Patriot springs with roller rockers on a cam lobe as aggressive as yours is a disaster for sure. We've seen this type of failure several times with used Patriot springs.
If the lifters aren't genuine GM then that can contribute to a failure as well.
Patriot springs with roller rockers on a cam lobe as aggressive as yours is a disaster for sure. We've seen this type of failure several times with used Patriot springs.
If the lifters aren't genuine GM then that can contribute to a failure as well.
Did you have any input on changes to make? Have you had customers go a different route with more success? Thanks
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix, AZ
Their hardening process has come into question before. The LS7 lifters aren't great either.
The roller rockers are heavy. The Patriot springs **** the bed after being used (add to that a blower configuration that reduces the effective spring pressure at the valve by the amount of boost you're running.)
All of those would contribute to your issues. If the rockers are heavy causing float and the valves aren't holding everything in contact, then the pushrods could be literally vaulting the lifter off the cam (loft), causing the lifters and cam lobe to crash back into each other when the pushrod returns to normal, then that would cause the issue you see as well.
Take your pick on the issue.
The roller rockers are heavy. The Patriot springs **** the bed after being used (add to that a blower configuration that reduces the effective spring pressure at the valve by the amount of boost you're running.)
All of those would contribute to your issues. If the rockers are heavy causing float and the valves aren't holding everything in contact, then the pushrods could be literally vaulting the lifter off the cam (loft), causing the lifters and cam lobe to crash back into each other when the pushrod returns to normal, then that would cause the issue you see as well.
Take your pick on the issue.
Last edited by Chad1234; Jun 29, 2015 at 05:42 PM.
Well, I only posted the worst pic of the 1of3 cam/lifter damage. Sounds to me like the combo of parts are causing the lifters to crash back into the cam and damage the lifter. Sounds like the cam is too aggressive and my springs/rockers and weak/heavy. I was told by engine builder that these were genuine LS7 Lifters.
Did you have any input on changes to make? Have you had customers go a different route with more success? Thanks
Did you have any input on changes to make? Have you had customers go a different route with more success? Thanks
You should also consider shimming the springs between 1.750"-1.780", shims can be found here: http://www.briantooleyracing.com/shi...ck-guides.html
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix, AZ
Rocker Advice Need some rocker advice on re-assembling this motor. I went with a Camotion Cam, new valve springs from BTR, and new stock GM Lifters.
I've been told the Comp Cam Roller Rockers stud-mounted rockers I have are heavy and can cause some issues. What should I replace them with that will hold up?
(5.3L LS1, stroked 383, supercharger, etc)
Thanks
I've been told the Comp Cam Roller Rockers stud-mounted rockers I have are heavy and can cause some issues. What should I replace them with that will hold up?
(5.3L LS1, stroked 383, supercharger, etc)
Thanks
stock gm rockers. with that cam and lifter setup any roller rocker will not play nice with eachother. If you had a stock cam with those springs it would be ok to run RR's but the cames lobes make it much harder to control.
Gm rockers are just fine unless you have aftermarket heads with bronze guides. they are very light and plenty strong
Gm rockers are just fine unless you have aftermarket heads with bronze guides. they are very light and plenty strong
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
From: Vacaville, CA
holy aggressive ramp rates! 215 and .601? That's going to need an awful lot of spring pressure, bigger pushrods, and like they said, stock rockers with the trunion upgrade. It's so easy to put those trunions in, and not expensive at about $140 from most places. I really hope Comp's problems are behind them, and I think they are. Fingers crossed. I just bought a SSHT cam from Ed Curtis, which I found out was ground by Comp. He believes in them, for what it's worth
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix, AZ
Thanks guys for the response. The new cam is less aggressive (.578 / .561 lift with 1.7 ratio rockers, 214 / 226 duration at .050,118 lobe separation with 114 intake center line).
I'm in the process of trying to make this engine more dependable/reliable and don't know much about the differences in these top end parts. Sounds like I need stock LS Rockers, trunion kit, adapters to convert stud mounts to pedestal mounts, and then possibly need to order new push rods...
Is there any links or place you could steer me to learn about rocker types, installation tips, push rod measurements, etc? New to the forum and not familiar on where to search.
Cheers
I'm in the process of trying to make this engine more dependable/reliable and don't know much about the differences in these top end parts. Sounds like I need stock LS Rockers, trunion kit, adapters to convert stud mounts to pedestal mounts, and then possibly need to order new push rods...
Is there any links or place you could steer me to learn about rocker types, installation tips, push rod measurements, etc? New to the forum and not familiar on where to search.
Cheers