Generation III Internal Engine 1997-2006 LS1 | LS6
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MMS 220 Build for "Ghost Hawk"

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Old Jan 28, 2018 | 02:22 PM
  #761  
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Its a lot of fun. I was surprised by the tq curve. It makes sense based on the feel of the car but it still was surprising
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Old Jan 28, 2018 | 04:10 PM
  #762  
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Peak torque occurs when the cylinder pressure is at its highest point
That cylinder pressure does it’s best to force the rings against the cylinder walls with the lower end crankcase pressure working in opposition
At all the other points of the torque band is where the enhanced ring seal will show up since the air pump removes the ring fluttering Lower end pressure
Thus capturing more cylinder pressure on the north side of the piston. About 2.5 horsepower per cylinder
Additionally the oil rings perform better AND the secondary ring can scrape the bores more effectively. Thus less oil contamination which contributes to detonation. I wonder if you’re able to run a half to one more degree of timing without causing knock retard.
GREAT JOB with the build here !!!!!
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Old Jan 28, 2018 | 04:14 PM
  #763  
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Thanks AR! And good catch. I did add two degrees of timing for the dyno but pulled it back out for the street. And no KR. If there was the operator didn't report it to me.
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Old Jan 28, 2018 | 04:36 PM
  #764  
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Originally Posted by Darth_V8r
Thanks AR! And good catch. I did add two degrees of timing for the dyno but pulled it back out for the street. And no KR. If there was the operator didn't report it to me.
With how violently that thing lights the tires on the street it won’t see or need retard since there’s not enough resistance against the engine
When you fully hook at the track and are moving all the weight that the engine’s acceleration rate is slowed down; and mostly in the higher gears when wind resistance also begins to add to the restriction
Since back in the mid nineties I’ve had Auto trans buddies pulling four degrees of timing out when clicking high gear and gaining 1.5-3 mph on mid 130s trapping cars.
Not sure if in your case you could leave the two in there but pull one out in the 2-3 Hundred RPM window of where you drop to after shifting. Or shift recover RPM I’ve heard it referred to
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Old Jan 28, 2018 | 04:42 PM
  #765  
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Originally Posted by A.R. Shale Targa
With how violently that thing lights the tires on the street it won’t see or need retard since there’s not enough resistance against the engine
When you fully hook at the track and are moving all the weight that the engine’s acceleration rate is slowed down; and mostly in the higher gears when wind resistance also begins to add to the restriction
Since back in the mid nineties I’ve had Auto trans buddies pulling four degrees of timing out when clicking high gear and gaining 1.5-3 mph on mid 130s trapping cars.
Not sure if in your case you could leave the two in there but pull one out in the 2-3 Hundred RPM window of where you drop to after shifting. Or shift recover RPM I’ve heard it referred to
That's a good idea! I run about 4 degrees lower at 4800-5200 vs peak power, but I could put those back where they were and run 5-6 lower. I was at 26/22. Bumped to 28/24. You're saying something like 28/23?
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Old Jan 28, 2018 | 07:07 PM
  #766  
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Could you post a pictures of engine as installed?

Interested in seeing the MSD manifold as installed.
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Old Jan 28, 2018 | 07:27 PM
  #767  
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Only diff between this pic and the car sitting right now is the air inlet tubing.

Attachment 697379
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Old Jan 28, 2018 | 08:29 PM
  #768  
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Attachment comes up as invalid.
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Old Jan 28, 2018 | 08:32 PM
  #769  
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Originally Posted by Darth_V8r
That's a good idea! I run about 4 degrees lower at 4800-5200 vs peak power, but I could put those back where they were and run 5-6 lower. I was at 26/22. Bumped to 28/24. You're saying something like 28/23?
Worth a try for sure in light of the changes. Could leave it a bit fuel fat for safety while trying it. Rich makes horsepower and lean spikes torque but lean with timing wrecks pistons. You know all this
Too bad a piston squirter kit wasn’t available. Could cool the undersides of slugs which rejects more BTU of heat back into the chamber. Allows even more detonation resistance to add timing.
Ya almost gotta wonder if 550 is achievable since you’re now 11 away...
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Old Jan 28, 2018 | 08:34 PM
  #770  
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MMS 220 Build for "Ghost Hawk"-photo398.jpg

That work?
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Old Jan 28, 2018 | 08:36 PM
  #771  
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Originally Posted by A.R. Shale Targa
Worth a try for sure in light of the changes. Could leave it a bit fuel fat for safety while trying it. Rich makes horsepower and lean spikes torque but lean with timing wrecks pistons. You know all this
Too bad a piston squirter kit wasn’t available. Could cool the undersides of slugs which rejects more BTU of heat back into the chamber. Allows even more detonation resistance to add timing.
Ya almost gotta wonder if 550 is achievable since you’re now 11 away...
I think it's possible. I wonder if a ITB would be enough
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Old Jan 28, 2018 | 09:15 PM
  #772  
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Originally Posted by Darth_V8r
I think it's possible. I wonder if a ITB would be enough
That and some ultra fancy stepped headers with merge collectors and spikes; unless you’ve already got those and I missed it
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Old Jan 28, 2018 | 09:49 PM
  #773  
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No I don't. Just straight 1-7/8 x 3". But great idea!
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Old Jan 28, 2018 | 09:50 PM
  #774  
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I think 550 is possible
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Old Jan 28, 2018 | 10:11 PM
  #775  
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Originally Posted by Darth_V8r
That works for me.

Saw what I didn't want to see when using stock fuel rail, how high above the manifold the center of crossover tube sits above groove in manifold at it's high point.

Looks like Back to the drawing board.
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Old Jan 28, 2018 | 10:17 PM
  #776  
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Originally Posted by big hammer
I think 550 is possible
I think maybe 600 with the same HCI on a Iron 6.0
4.030" X 3.622, Gen 4 Crank & Rods, light custom
Pistons 12.0:1 Comp and some tricks.
Maybe slightly larger cam.
Not like Hammers slightly larger cam. LOL
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Old Jan 29, 2018 | 09:19 AM
  #777  
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Good job Darth you're a beast! You would clear 550 with e85 alone.

A.R. here you go bud
https://www.briantooleyracing.com/pi...kit-37999.html
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Old Jan 29, 2018 | 09:33 AM
  #778  
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Originally Posted by poorhousenext
That works for me.

Saw what I didn't want to see when using stock fuel rail, how high above the manifold the center of crossover tube sits above groove in manifold at it's high point.

Looks like Back to the drawing board.
You could use aftermarket rails unless you want to stick with stock

MMS 220 Build for "Ghost Hawk"-photo915.jpg
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Old Jan 29, 2018 | 10:10 AM
  #779  
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Originally Posted by NAVYBLUE210
I think maybe 600 with the same HCI on a Iron 6.0
4.030" X 3.622, Gen 4 Crank & Rods, light custom
Pistons 12.0:1 Comp and some tricks.
Maybe slightly larger cam.
Not like Hammers slightly larger cam. LOL
Hammers 388 is actually still more efficient than mine. He's at 1.62 HP/CI, and I'm at 1.56 HP/CI. I'm quite sure some of that is his rings aren't as gone as mine, and he also hit peak HP at a higher RPM. An all-bore 383 might be enough for 600. That might be a cool build for someone

I think if I were gonna chase it, I'd need a new cam with a later IVC and more overlap.
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Old Jan 29, 2018 | 10:52 AM
  #780  
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Originally Posted by NAVYBLUE210
I think maybe 600 with the same HCI on a Iron 6.0
4.030" X 3.622, Gen 4 Crank & Rods, light custom
Pistons 12.0:1 Comp and some tricks.
Maybe slightly larger cam.
Not like Hammers slightly larger cam. LOL
I’m just glad he got the hp record—- he deserves it.
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