AFR heads have the Patriot GOLD springs??
06-12-2004, 01:39 PM
#22
Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
Hello...
I was considering not responding just to keep the "entertainment value" of this thread going....
BUT....just to put all minds at rest, YES...AFR is currently installing Patriot "gold" dual springs as our "standard" valvespring. We are having springs custom made specifically for us, of very similar premium wire material, but the lead time for a run of custom springs is insane. We felt that of all the dual springs currently available, the Patriot spring (not manufactured by Patriot of course) was arguably one of the best springs we could have installed till our own production run is complete.
Our "upgrade" spring is similar in material, but has additional seat pressure (145 lbs.) and a higher spring rate (400 lbs. @ .600). We recommend our "upgrade" springs with their higher pressures in applications where gross valve lift is .600 or more and/or the RPM level you expect to turn is approaching the 7000 mark. We also recommend installing the COMP "R" lifters with our upgrade spring as it has a different oil metering system which better handles the additional spring load.
Terry....Thanks for all the help with the valvesprings!
Regards to all,
Tony M.
I was considering not responding just to keep the "entertainment value" of this thread going....
BUT....just to put all minds at rest, YES...AFR is currently installing Patriot "gold" dual springs as our "standard" valvespring. We are having springs custom made specifically for us, of very similar premium wire material, but the lead time for a run of custom springs is insane. We felt that of all the dual springs currently available, the Patriot spring (not manufactured by Patriot of course) was arguably one of the best springs we could have installed till our own production run is complete.
Our "upgrade" spring is similar in material, but has additional seat pressure (145 lbs.) and a higher spring rate (400 lbs. @ .600). We recommend our "upgrade" springs with their higher pressures in applications where gross valve lift is .600 or more and/or the RPM level you expect to turn is approaching the 7000 mark. We also recommend installing the COMP "R" lifters with our upgrade spring as it has a different oil metering system which better handles the additional spring load.
Terry....Thanks for all the help with the valvesprings!
Regards to all,
Tony M.
Kyle
Last edited by NA$TY-TA; 06-12-2004 at 04:14 PM.
06-12-2004, 01:48 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by NA$TY-TA
My question is why do you recommend a different spring for over .600 lift when the patriot springs will take .650 lift???? I know alot of people myself included running the Patriot springs with cams over .600 left.
Kyle
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06-12-2004, 02:06 PM
#24
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Holy crap what a bunch of whiners in here...."..where was the spring made I care...", "...who says they are the best..."....throw me a bone lol damn people. Have you seen one break??? NO, have you seen them in person, they *look* GREAT!! Are people using them with their BIG lift cams?? YES, ok if I remember correctly people are saying that they are "SOME OF THE BEST" not "THE BEST", kind of hard to tell that. Geez quit whining.
-Sly
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06-12-2004, 04:56 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by slyws6
Holy crap what a bunch of whiners in here...."..where was the spring made I care...", "...who says they are the best..."....throw me a bone lol damn people. Have you seen one break??? NO, have you seen them in person, they *look* GREAT!! Are people using them with their BIG lift cams?? YES, ok if I remember correctly people are saying that they are "SOME OF THE BEST" not "THE BEST", kind of hard to tell that. Geez quit whining.
-Sly
-Sly
Amazing! I could almost feel my brain cells dying as I read your post.
Let me get this straight.I'm a whiner because I'd like to know where a spring is made?
That has to be one of most ignorant things I have ever seen on the internet.Since when is it out of line to want to know about things you may purchase?
If you'll take the time to re-read my posts you'll realize I did nothing other than ask what I (and many others) would consider valid questions of people.There were no attacks,no insinuating that these products might be defective.
I personally hold AFR in high regard and have NEVER participated negatively in any of the inane threads where "AFR bashing" has occured. I have owned products of theirs in the past and have been very happy with them.
Please do me a favor: In the future do not comment on any of my posts or quote me unless you are going to take the time to think before you lay fingers to keyboard. You just make yourself look stupid.
Sorry for then semi-"off-topic" post
06-12-2004, 06:56 PM
#27
Here's exactly why we like the Patriot Springs:
Doubles Good to ATLEAST .650 lift
Coil Bind Is At .720 lift...
Springs are Super Pure Chrome Silicone Vanadium
They're Electro polished to help spring life & remove spring impurities
They're 1.29” diameter so the heads require no extra machining!
Pressures:
140#@ Seat
390# Open
$295 gets the complete package with titanium retainers, springs, seats & seals!!
We've personally run the springs with lift past .650 & had great results.
By no means am I a spring expert, but it sounds like a pretty good package to me.
Doubles Good to ATLEAST .650 lift
Coil Bind Is At .720 lift...
Springs are Super Pure Chrome Silicone Vanadium
They're Electro polished to help spring life & remove spring impurities
They're 1.29” diameter so the heads require no extra machining!
Pressures:
140#@ Seat
390# Open
$295 gets the complete package with titanium retainers, springs, seats & seals!!
We've personally run the springs with lift past .650 & had great results.
By no means am I a spring expert, but it sounds like a pretty good package to me.
Originally Posted by mike m
What makes you believe this? Are you an expert in springs? If so please tell us in detail what makes this spring sooo great. I dont know, I am not a spring expert and seeing as how AFR will be using these springs and I wil be wanting to buy a set of these heads in the future it would be nice to have some technical insite. Thanks.
__________________
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Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
06-12-2004, 10:10 PM
#28
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Some of guys in here I bet would argue that ice is frozen water, and others would say that water is actually melted ice.
If AFR has a seat pressure in mind well then they go with whatever meets their specifications.
If AFR has a seat pressure in mind well then they go with whatever meets their specifications.
06-12-2004, 10:18 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
Some of guys I bet would argue that ice is frozen water, and others would say that water is actually melted ice.
06-12-2004, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Cheatin' Chad
Amazing! I could almost feel my brain cells dying as I read your post.
Let me get this straight.I'm a whiner because I'd like to know where a spring is made?That has to be one of most ignorant things I have ever seen on the internet.
Since when is it out of line to want to know about things you may purchase?
If you'll take the time to re-read my posts you'll realize I did nothing other than ask what I (and many others) would consider valid questions of people.There were no attacks,no insinuating that these products might be defective.
I personally hold AFR in high regard and have NEVER participated negatively in any of the inane threads where "AFR bashing" has occured. I have owned products of theirs in the past and have been very happy with them.
Please do me a favor: In the future do not comment on any of my posts or quote me unless you are going to take the time to think before you lay fingers to keyboard. You just make yourself look stupid.
Sorry for then semi-"off-topic" post
Let me get this straight.I'm a whiner because I'd like to know where a spring is made?
That has to be one of most ignorant things I have ever seen on the internet.Since when is it out of line to want to know about things you may purchase?
If you'll take the time to re-read my posts you'll realize I did nothing other than ask what I (and many others) would consider valid questions of people.There were no attacks,no insinuating that these products might be defective.
I personally hold AFR in high regard and have NEVER participated negatively in any of the inane threads where "AFR bashing" has occured. I have owned products of theirs in the past and have been very happy with them.
Please do me a favor: In the future do not comment on any of my posts or quote me unless you are going to take the time to think before you lay fingers to keyboard. You just make yourself look stupid.
Sorry for then semi-"off-topic" post
06-12-2004, 11:51 PM
#32
AMEN
I think the Patriot Springs eaed quite an endorsement when AFR chose them. That builds credability, not just s few people claiming they are the best. Either way its good news for all of us, AFR's are shipping, and both AFR and Patriot heads come with good springs. We the consumers are the beneficiaries. Anyone want to argue about...umm...cheese?
BTW, I agree it is a fair question to ask where a product is made, and by whom. That shouldnt be argueable. Weather or not they care to share that infomation is a different story, but to ask and want to know is certainly a fair question.
I think the Patriot Springs eaed quite an endorsement when AFR chose them. That builds credability, not just s few people claiming they are the best. Either way its good news for all of us, AFR's are shipping, and both AFR and Patriot heads come with good springs. We the consumers are the beneficiaries. Anyone want to argue about...umm...cheese?
BTW, I agree it is a fair question to ask where a product is made, and by whom. That shouldnt be argueable. Weather or not they care to share that infomation is a different story, but to ask and want to know is certainly a fair question.
06-13-2004, 10:22 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA
Here's exactly why we like the Patriot Springs:
Doubles Good to ATLEAST .650 lift
Coil Bind Is At .720 lift...
Springs are Super Pure Chrome Silicone Vanadium
They're Electro polished to help spring life & remove spring impurities
They're 1.29” diameter so the heads require no extra machining!
Pressures:
140#@ Seat
390# Open
$295 gets the complete package with titanium retainers, springs, seats & seals!!
We've personally run the springs with lift past .650 & had great results.
By no means am I a spring expert, but it sounds like a pretty good package to me.
Doubles Good to ATLEAST .650 lift
Coil Bind Is At .720 lift...
Springs are Super Pure Chrome Silicone Vanadium
They're Electro polished to help spring life & remove spring impurities
They're 1.29” diameter so the heads require no extra machining!
Pressures:
140#@ Seat
390# Open
$295 gets the complete package with titanium retainers, springs, seats & seals!!
We've personally run the springs with lift past .650 & had great results.
By no means am I a spring expert, but it sounds like a pretty good package to me.
06-13-2004, 10:38 AM
#35
Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
Hello Everyone,
The components in our cylinder heads have also been upgraded. All of the AFR LS heads come “standard equipment” with titanium retainers and premium dual springs rated for .600 lift. Regards to all, Tony Mamo
The components in our cylinder heads have also been upgraded. All of the AFR LS heads come “standard equipment” with titanium retainers and premium dual springs rated for .600 lift. Regards to all, Tony Mamo
Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA
Here's exactly why we like the Patriot Springs:
Doubles Good to ATLEAST .650 lift
Doubles Good to ATLEAST .650 lift
Why are the springs only said to be good to .600 on AFR heads?
06-13-2004, 11:58 AM
#37
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"GOLD"
Originally Posted by SPANKY LS1
Why are the springs only said to be good to .600 on AFR heads?
The "GOLD" springs are good to .650.Plus there is to run a little more past that.
06-13-2004, 03:01 PM
#38
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Mike M you seem to have quite and attitude take it easy.
AFR likely wants to have their own specs for the really aggressive cams.
I am sure the Patriots would work well to .650 lift but the AFRs with the aggressive spring package will probably have a lot more closed and open pressure. (catering to the solid roller or extreme lift hyd grinds)
Thanks for providing the information Terry, Trevor and Tony.
I am going to run Patriot Springs in my new 385 as well.
AFR likely wants to have their own specs for the really aggressive cams.
I am sure the Patriots would work well to .650 lift but the AFRs with the aggressive spring package will probably have a lot more closed and open pressure. (catering to the solid roller or extreme lift hyd grinds)
Thanks for providing the information Terry, Trevor and Tony.
I am going to run Patriot Springs in my new 385 as well.
06-14-2004, 08:38 AM
#39
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
BTW, I think there are like 6 spring companies in the U.S. one of them is in Dallas BTW. They make springs for the big 3, and the aftermarket. So, depending on which factory it is, your stock GM, ISKY, Comp, or Patriots may be rolling right out of the same factory...
06-14-2004, 10:51 AM
#40
J-rod is correct, 3 majors and about 3 or 4 that are smaller winders. Terry uses Super Clean Chrome Vanadium, this is the best material for springs for seat pressure and indurance. The material was developed by a Japanese steel company in Kobi, Japan. It has actually been around for years, first marketed by one cam company to no success, Wolverine, then Comp picked it up and started calling in Pacaloy. Since then the material is commonly used in high end engines.
A gentleman by the name of Ron Proctor is considered the "father" of the performance spring. . .the story goes Ed Iskendarian was needing some springs to hold up to some of his profiles, Ron, self taught spring guru of Barnes designed the springs. They worked. From then on Ron was contacted by many the old grinders for springs. This was the start of the modern day High Performance Valve spring.
Chris
A gentleman by the name of Ron Proctor is considered the "father" of the performance spring. . .the story goes Ed Iskendarian was needing some springs to hold up to some of his profiles, Ron, self taught spring guru of Barnes designed the springs. They worked. From then on Ron was contacted by many the old grinders for springs. This was the start of the modern day High Performance Valve spring.
Chris