Just for clarification's sake, the lift on the T1 is .558, not .575.

 

Predator-Z...

Your senseless negative commentary concerning the new AFR "LS" heads in a couple of previous threads had me a little upset, primarily because your comments had zero factual content to them. I really don't understand your negative agenda concerning our new product, but now you have crossed the line prompting me to respond based on this post which has completely INACCURATE information. Please take the time to find out the facts before posting your opinions and commentary.

#1 AFR has most certainly put down 470+ to the tire with a 224/228 cam. In fact, with a 90mm TB installed just this Sunday, we rocked the dyno at LAPD to the tune of 476 HP/ 431 Ft/lbs....with the street friendly 224 cam still in the motor. Thanks for giving me an excuse to share that...

#2 All of the chassis numbers I have been referring to with our 224/228 package are in fact being developed with a bone stock 2000' LS1 shortblock that has 45 K on the clock....not a "fresh" Z06 block which would indeed make a little more power due to less windage losses and perhaps better ring seal.

#3 The compression ratio of the 224 engine in question is 11 to 1....not 11.4 to 1. Your getting confused with Lou's results on a different car he just tested which put down 484 HP with his GX3 cam and a modified Z06 intake.

#4 AFR heads are in fact 66 cc's out of the box, and we charge $100 to flatmill for less chamber volume and higher compression. Our standard springs are extremely high quality dual's that we conservatively rate to .600 lift. Most people won't need a spring upgrade but in the event that they do, it only costs $80.

I cant wait till some of the guys start receiving their new AFR's and start posting pics....when you guys see the quality of our completely new castings, as well as the quality of the CNC porting and machine work, you might just want to purchase three castings to have one to keep in the garage to show your buddies...

OK....I'm done

Regards to those with OPEN MINDS,
Tony M.

 

Thanks for clearing up the facts Tony and keeping us up to date. I plan on running your heads on both my cars.

 

Thanks Tony...my 427 is begging for your 225's or is there even more coming???

 

I used to have a 95 LT1 and I remember clearly the flop and misleading facts my swapping to AFR's had led to. I'm sceptic of the promised performance so beautifly embelished. And where in my response did I give any negative comments about the AFR's? Read again, I was just giving my views on a comparison basis. For the price difference MTI 2E is a better buy Vs "out of the box" AFR 205's. This is MY opinion and I'm entitled to it.

Again read again and you will see I said that I didn't think you had tested a 224/224, .581/.581 112lsa with AFR's and clearly as you stated you tested a 224/228. Now unless I'm in the Twilight Zone, these are two very different cams. That is why I also stated that SSCAM68 should specify what "224" he was talking about.

I made no reference to that.And excuse me but a "bone stock LS1" does not have a 224/228, 90MM TB, lsx intake, Headers etc....
What poeple want (The other open eyed poeple) is a straight swap from stock LS1 motor to stock + AFR. No cams, no gimmics, no headers, nothing. 1 to 1 swap. regular heads VS AFR.
Then IMO we will see the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Just the way it is supposed to be. Do it on a 2001-2002 that way you can't blame the intake or the exhaust manifolds and guess what? Even the injectors will handle the max your heads can put on a STOCK LS1 engine.

Yes that's what I was referring to, and again read carefully I never mentionned your name or that you did the testing on the G5X3.So confusion is not an issue. And since when does a 66cc head get an 11:1 CR on a flat top slugged stock LS1? even with a Cometic gasket it would be around 10:2>10:3. So the AFR's tested on the 224/228 were NOT out of the box.

That is what I said. $2249.00 (New price)+ $100.00+$80.00=$2429.00 (ie: Close to $2500.00
And I quote from your own site:
1250" OD HYDRAULIC VALVE SPRING WITH DAMPNER, 130 LBS ON SEAT, 0.581 MAX. LIFT #8017 (UPGRADES AVAILABLE)Why be conservative? Just say the truth or do you think we wouldn't understand? What other facts are being kept from your consumer?

I never bought heads for what they looked like, otherwise I would just polish my stock ones for show.

So Tony,
WELCOME TO A FREE SPEECH FORUM, WHERE VIEWS ARE EXPRESSED, FACTS DISCUSSED, NUMBERS QUESTIONNED, MISTAKES CORRECTED, KNOWLEDGE IS GAINED, MARKETING WARS ARE FOUGHT, TROLLS ARE BASHED, IGNORANCE IS IRRADICATED, BLIND SEE THE LIGHT AND LSx MOTORS RULE

 

Actually, it is NOT a free speech forum.

Unless you pay the $150 per month fee, your opinion means nothing...

Ed

 

One of the great things about being a consumer today is that there is a wealth of information and opinions available in a matter of moments with just a click of a mouse.

You can research, debate, pose questions and generally get several perspectives and viewpoints on any given subject, so I thought I'd join in and throw my .02 in the ring

Bottom line? I feel that AFR makes a very good product as do we. And I'd advise any customer to weigh the information available to him and make the decision that he feels is right at the end of the day.

My job in representing MTI is the same as Tony's at AFR or any of the other sponsors of this board - provide a quality product at a competitive price, respond to customer's needs and requests in a timely fashion and try to do the right thing, day in and day out, the first time, every time.

Beyond that, hey it's your money! Spend it on what you like and what you want, but above all have fun doing it!

If I can answer any questions about any of MTI's products, please feel free to e-mail me directly davidc@motorsporttech.com

Best regards,

David

 

What he said

 

Tony, thanks for the factual reporting and good luck in the future....476, especially with a street and smog friendly cam is awesome


Predator-Z... thanks for being such a dick and then back pedaling by stating all of your disinformation was simply "your opinion".

 

Well maybe I should try you. I am dumbfounded by the lack of responses I have got to my requests for information or even quotes that I have emailed to the biggest named, most reputable sponsors on this board. I'm not going to bash any of them in particular but they all need to do a better job of responding to emails, especially when a customer is wanting to spend big bucks. Who knows, maybe they are all so busy that they are able to ignore sales opportunities. Must be nice to have that much busniess. Maybe there is still room to jump into this industry?

 

Have you tried calling any of the shops ? I have always had better luck calling a place than waiting for an email response.

 

If I were you and I was"nt in a big rush I would wait a little longer and see what the AFR heads produce hp wise.Only a few people really know what these heads can do,the heads are shipping now and I"m sure the #"s will be posted on here.BTW the AFR LT-1 heads have NOTHING to do with the new LSI heads from AFR,WHAT A STUPID COMPARISON!!A head that can flow 300 CFM with a 205 cc port is going to be hard to beat,wait to you see some track numbers.Big flow #"s don"t always equal the best performance if the port volume is too big! In a couple of weeks we will all know much more about this new head,so lets just wait and see what all the users post on here.I think its GREAT that a company has the desire,ability and resources to produce a new cylinder head for the LS1,I believe that its going to offer the head porters that everone has been buying from the ability to make even better flow #"s with a smaller port volume.Now let the show begin!!!

 

Maybe I'm confused...but he said bone stock LS1 shortblock

 

If I'm not the only one that doesn't get responses via email, that makes me feel a little better. Nonetheless, you'd think they would have someone go through the emails and respond to any prospective buyers. I haven't called any of them yet because; in addition to my technical and sales questions I'm just looking for good customer service at this point. I'm very skeptical of the professionalism in the world of high performance automotive when it comes to customer service so I'm looking for a company that's going to be provide good customer service straight from the get go.

I have no doubt every one of them are professional when it comes to knowledge and product. After all, we ultimately care most about the quality and performance of the products we purchase. But we’d have a much more pleasant buying experience with a company that answers our emails, cares about our needs, and wants to help us reach our goals.

To me, good customer service is:

1. Responding in a timely fashion to inquiries. (A few days, not a few weeks, months or no response at all)
2. Listening to and understanding a customer’s wants and needs.
3. Recommending a quality product or products to help them achieve those wants and needs.
4. Providing that product with some sense of insurance (albeit a warranty or even word of mouth if there is a trusting relationship established) in case the product is defective or there was a mistake during installation (if install was included).
5. Providing all paperwork if applicable (dyno sheets, a/f ratio, compression ratio, head flow numbers, cam specs, parts used, labor involved, etc.)
6. Attention to detail.
7. The ability to admit an error or mistake.
8. Doing everything possible to correct an error or mistake.
9. Occasionally following up with the customer to make sure they are happy with the product and service they received. (Always a chance for repeat business you know?)
10. Competitive pricing.

I listed number 10 last because it should be the least important of all if a company is consistently able to provide the previous nine. I realize some customers are nearly impossible to please and can be very unrealistic but that should be determined during number 2. I wouldn’t want to sell a customer a set of heads who expects to go high 9’s on the stock bottom end. That should be a red flag because that’s obviously very unrealistic and I’d probably recommend they find someone with a better set of heads.

All I know is if I had the knowledge and resources that some of these people/companies have, that is the way I would strive to handle my customers. The smarts and craftsmanship are there; I’d just like to see some better customer service in this industry. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, I’m just saying that I have yet to be impressed.

 

Actually, I take that back, I used to buy a lot of stuff from ls1motorsports. Rob Raymer (sp?) was pretty impressive. Their website and product selection hasn’t been up to par over the past year or so though, so I haven’t purchased from them in a while. But I still try to buy from them whenever possible.

But now I’m looking for a good set of heads and a big cam to compliment the heads and my overall set up. So for these types of internal mods I just think there are other vendors that would be a better choice.

 

I would definately be interesting in seeing a direct comparison stock vs afr, much like they have done in the past with their mustang project car. I think it would be great to dyno a car and then just bolt the 205's and see how it turns out. BTW its nice to see AFR throw their hat in the LS1 ring.

 

Actually the specs on my cam card state .575 unless i have differnt type of T1

Man this is great info ThanX for the replys....

 

<wearing flameproof suit>

Well, in this world of "internet access" and "instant gratification" your response doesn't surprise me... It's just like the Corral and other such sites..

Though I will not try to explain the "other" shop's lack of response time but you need to understand that an "Email Request" is a minor priority for most businesses that have customers ready and waiting "in person" to spend their money. Some may have actually taken the time to stop by... Where would YOU spend your time?

If you were in this business, how would YOU address the hundreds of "Email requests" for information that net zero income? Would YOU just ignor the "paying" customer to answer that "request for info"??? Would YOU spend every moment of time on the internet doling out free information, ignoring the real customers? Did you get an empty paycheck at the end of the week?

Come on, you've got to understand the reality of the priority between a REQUEST versus a SALE...

Look, if the shop is busy, and takes a while to get to your request, that's a sign they are busy and FOR A GOOD REASON! Ever wonder why the best restaurants have a waiting line whereas the mediocre ones don't?

Maybe you need to refine your requests?? I get "Email Requests" for cam designs and "rough specs" all the time that I do not answer... All kinds of backdoor ways to try to pry the specs out of me like "how does this sound" or "what if this was done". All for naught because to play, you gotta pay. Like I said, YOU don't work for free... Do you?

Sorry but with this kind of logic, if OJ was on the internet looking for legal advice, he'd be looking at a needle now... For himself it's a good thing he didn't 'cuz he surely got his money's worth and he literally got away with murder!

<ready for the slam-fest>

Ed

 

I'm not going to slam you. You have some very good points. I totally agree with you that current customers take first priority. However, my suggestion would be to hire one or two local enthusiasts to go through the emails and answer the RFQ's (which most of my emails were by the way). Only pay them $8.00/hr give or take. I'm sure you'd be able to find many young enthusiasts that would love to do that and also be smart enough to look up your pricing info and respond with an estimate. They could slowly learn enough to answer most questions. I personally have never once asked for anything other than a quote or suggestions on which cam to use or something on those lines. You have to agree that it is in the best interest of the customer to get several quotes, get to know a little bit the people he/she will be buying from, and make an informed decision. Afterall, this is a very expensive hobby and often involves thousands of dollars being spent on products that largely depreciate as soon as you drive off with them.

If a shop is ALWAYS too busy that is a sign the company is ready for growth. Hire more people, take in more customers and make more money.

 

Easier said than done buddy! Are you aware what its involved financially for hiring one person when it comes to a small buisness? I am not trying to get into a pissing contest, I am asking a legit question.

me when I found out--->