SScam68

iTrader: (20)

Its already been done!

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=819571

SScam68

iTrader: (20)

Yet you state this wrong information?
I guess that one is cleared up. But again there is a lot more to a camshaft than these obscure numbers. They could both be "224/224 .581/.581" and be worlds apart.


Again you make yourself look foolish, this has already been done by a magazine. See the link I posted above, it contains before and after numbers as well as in modified form, just like most peoples setups.

As corrected LG did the testing. Looks like your the one thats SERIOUSLY confused. Again the magazine tested ones outta the box, see above. As stated before the heads are setup to be close to the stock CR, and I dont' understand why you insist a spring upgrade is necessary. See below.......

If I am correct that has changed and corrected by Tony somewhere on this forum, look for the post. There is another post around here in which its clearly stated that the springs can handle ".6" " of lift.

Here is the best part,

a quote from Tony Mamo

and a quote by you Predator Z

and here is the link so people can check for themselves

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/181422-afr-heads-have-patriot-gold-springs.html

and idiots like you spread nothing but bullshit

PREDATOR-Z

Yeap i read that post. So a STOCK ls1 makes 393 HP at 6500rpm.
Do you even know what stock means?????????? and I'm the idiot just because I want a one to one comparison?

Show me one of my posts that says AFR is crap, they have no potential, they are no better than stock etc... You won't

Put a set of MTI 2E's on that same engine stated in that Corvette Forum and show me that they couldn't have the same or better or worse gain. You can't.
So where is my bullshit in saying that in my opinion as I see it, 2E's are a better buy judging the difference in prices.

And you are the polite, all knowing smart one.
Yes master, forgive me master, sure master.

This is all futile, you can treat me the way you like, I refuse to sink to name calling just to prove my views.
I made up my mind, others will make up theirs and points are only proven at the track.
Good luck to ALL, sponsors included.

Pesticide

iTrader: (8)

Thanks sscam68 for the link.

PewterZ28

iTrader: (1)

To an extent, yes I do. I am loosely involved with the financial decisions made at the company I work for. We have over 30 employees so I don’t know how that compares to some of the high performance automotive companies.

I assume you own one? How many employees do you have working for you? What’s your profit margin? Do you have more work than you can handle? How would adding an employee(s) change your overhead and effect costs? Do you provide products and services or only products? Do you drop ship or keep inventory? Insurance costs? Etc. (I’m not actually asking you to answer those questions ) I know there are a lot of questions for which you have to have good answers for in order to justify hiring additional help. It may not be the best answer for every shop. Maybe for some shops there is no way of getting around turning away customers whether it is over the phone, in person or by way of ignoring emails/phone calls/faxes.

But I think the typical member here envisions some of these businesses as having at least a dozen employees if not more. Then when we hear how busy they are all year round, the next logical question is, “wow, good for them but why don’t they hire more people so they can take in more work?”

The company I work for is a job-oriented company. We’re Engineers, Consultants and Construction Managers. We build two-piece and three-piece steel and aluminum can lines and also PET lines. Sometimes we go several months with little to no work and other times we have so much work we could have twice as many people and they would still all be busy. We just have to learn how to drink from the fire hose when that happens. But even when we are so busy we can’t see straight we still don’t turn away work. If it gets to that point, we hire more people.

If all the vendors are so busy that they are able to ignore RFQ’s then that is 100% awesome for them because that means they are doing quite well for themselves! But if they rely on a steady flow of orders, especially ones that total in the $2,000 to $10,000 range, then it would be foolish to ignore those types of RFQ’s. How much time, really, does it take to send someone a quote, especially one that is probably often asked for (i.e. heads/cam including install and tuning)? The person requesting the quote is most likely going to buy from someone, why not convince him/her that someone is you?

Am I expecting too much? Do shop owners expect customers to just call and order and not seek pricing and technical information before making their decision?
(Yes, I do know a lot of the technical questions are answered right here at ls1tech.com but we, as buyers, owe it to ourselves to know who and what kind of person(s) we are giving our thousands of hard earned dollars to.)

If those are the kind of customers the shops are getting then I guess I don’t blame them. I mean, why spend 5 or 10 minutes emailing/talking to a guy/gal that may or may not buy when you can get the dummy at the door to buy right now with no questions asked? If this is the way it works then I can’t blame you but you also can’t blame me for not being one of those dummies.

I'm not a shop owner so they are allowed to do whatever they want , it has no effect on me or my job. But bottom line is I’m going to buy some stage 2 heads from someone as well as a bigger cam, bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump, better flowing oil pump, a 12-bolt rear, and possibly the labor for all, including tuning and whatever else may be needed. It may not be all in one purchase but someone is going to get some or all of that order and it certainly won’t be given to a company that couldn’t even suggest a cam or send me a quote.

PREDATOR-Z

Well said Pewter.
Showing interest in inquiries and feedback to questions has always been one of my decision factors in choosing a supplier.
Because in my mind if a shop does not take time to do so, what will happen if I have a problem after buying their product?

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Hey Ed, quit typing in BLUE! Some of us are on the "Darkside" blue background setting and your posts look blank

Ed Curtis

Boy has this one been hijacked...

However, at least it's professional by 99% of the posters...

Pewter...

I'll tell you this.... I work alone. I have a partner of sorts that works with me on various projects but to a great extent, it's ME here doing everything.

Why?

I did the "big speed shop" deal many years ago and it sucks. Overhead kills, insurance destroys, landlords are brutal, let's not forget the tax man... God bless those who can put up with all the BS that a larger business incurs...

Now, for your point on RFQ... This isn't a big market. Nothing like a tier one supplier nor an aftermarket manufacturer. It's a TOTALLY SPECIALIZED field and as such, a consumer has to depend predominanatly on referals and reputation. That's why good lawyers don't need those cheezey 30 second info-bites. They're good at their trade (no ambulance chaser comments please ) and don't need to advertize to generate customers.

Apply the basics... If you TRUST one shop's opinion, their combinations and their results.. BUY FROM THEM...

Results and referals are the best form of advertizing! I know it works extremely well for me...

<hijack over>

cool color... NOT!

Ed

SScam68

iTrader: (20)

I was actually going to answer all your questions until I saw that last sentence

In short there was no way in hell we could afford to hire someone JUST to answer emails, but that was our situation. I can't speak for a shop.

And I agree. In that situation you just have to prioritize, as EDC pointed out, so in one hand you have an inquiry and in the other you have a paying customer. What are you going to tell the bill collectors at the end of the month? What are you going to pay your employees with?

If I was that serious about making a purchase, especially one involving thousands of dollars, I would make a phone call, but thats just me. You'll be taken much more seriously anyways.


BTW There is more involved that just paying someone $X.XX/hr to answer emails, and I think you know that
.02

PewterZ28

iTrader: (1)

Ed, It's hard to read emotions over the internet so I can't really tell if you're implying I am being naive, unreasonable and my posts have been unprofessional or if you are simply trying to educate me on the harsh financial reality faced by even the highly successfull performance shops. If it is truly that difficult then I have sympathy for the shop owners/managers.

As for your other point, the reason I contacted the vendors I chose to email was because of the reputations they have here. It's not that I don't trust their opinion but rather I can not even get their opinion.

You’re right though, this thread has been hijacked. What were we talking about? J/K It wasn’t intentional and it looks like there are several hijackers on board. I've got wings though so I’ll jump off.

Sscam68, I agree it’s always better to talk to a person but I prefer to first establish contact via email. That way I can give them all the details in writing as well as state my questions in writing. There is less of a chance of forgetting an important question and having to call back again.

Also, the receiver of the email can always go back to the email and reread it to double check on the facts. No chance of a “oh, I thought you said you had a manual transmission” or “I thought you said you had a 2000 Z28.” Not that it would happen but rather that it could happen. The first email gets the facts out. The replying email shows the interest and probably answers the basic questions. From there the phone calls can get into the micro aspects of the questions and hopefully set up the appointment and/or the purchase. You have to agree with me on this to at least an extent, we’re all here typing aren’t we? Just look at how much the function is used.

Derrick

PewterZ28

iTrader: (1)

Getting back on subject.

When you say better power all the way around, do you mean throughout the entire rpm range? Both horsepower and torque? Finally does faster velocity = faster revving (not sure if that’s the word I’m looking for. I’m talking about the speed at which the engine revs through the rpm range during acceleration).

Ed Curtis

No flames, just providing another perspective...
Hey "I" do my best, but current family issues limit my time in the shop to get to things so some people will be peaved... Oh well.... Same issues (or similar) issues may be why there is a lag time for responses from some sources... As I mentioene, I can't speak for them... Just giving you some "from the other side of the counter" perspective...

BTW.. Retired from the high pressure mechanical engineering field two years ago and it was the best thing for my health.

Ed

MUSTANGEATER

iTrader: (10)

Derrick If I were you I'd try and get a hold of Ed Curtis (EDC). I'm trying to get him to do me an AFR Heads Cam Package and I now have similar N/A goals as you do. Now to get a hold of him when he's not busy making other people's stuff faster lol

Floyd

mattz06

AFR trust me!

SScam68

iTrader: (20)

I agree with your above statements, hehe damn thread hijackers

Technically yes, higher port velocity should improve torque throughout the rev range and inturn improve horespower. The car will rev faster because of the improved power.

Here is the dyno comparison of the AFR's at Westechs engine dyno.

Power


Torque


Difference in power between the AFR and LS1 head, tabulated form
Power
RPM..........LS1..........AFR......AFR w 224.....LS1-AFR...LS1 -AFR 224
3.0............214..........217...........229..... ......3................15
3.5............257..........262...........274..... ......5................17
4.0............307..........323...........330..... ......16..............23
4.5............361..........375...........381..... ......14..............20
5.0............401..........427...........447..... ......26..............46
5.5............415..........451...........486..... ......36..............71
5.8............421..........455...........499..... ......34..............78
5.9............420..........458...........502..... ......38..............82
6.0............415..........457...........505..... ......42..............90
6.5............393..........451...........507..... ......58..............114

Torque
RPM...........LS1...........AFR....AFR w 224..LS1-AFR.....LS1 -AFR 224
3.0............375..........379...........401..... ......4.............26
3.5............385..........392...........411..... ......7.............26
4.0............403..........424...........433..... ......21...........30
4.5............421..........437...........441..... ......16...........20
4.8............426..........452...........462..... ......26...........36
5.0............421..........448...........469..... ......27...........48
5.5............396..........430...........464..... ......34...........68
6.0............363..........400...........442..... ......37...........79
6.5............317..........364...........410..... ......47...........93

Vital Specs............Stock LS1......AFR
Intake Port Volume......201......205
Intake Valve Size..........2"......2.02"
Exhaust Valve Size......1.6"....1.55"
Chamber Volume........67cc.....66cc

Here is the dyno graph for Tony Mamo's car

The difference in the power curves is the headers that were used. Tony M Highlighted the specs in his post. Peaks were 471rwhp 432rwtq

This is an LG built car



In all honesty I don't see what the debate is

PewterZ28

iTrader: (1)

Ed, no doubt family always comes first.

Well what do you think Ed, should I try and get a hold of you?
Floyd, Ed and I have been sharing our thoughts in this very thread in case you didn't notice.

"Should hit over 500rwhp and these are the small heads!"

--Um, what would be considered the big heads then?

By the looks of where the torque peaks, it looks like a 4600 stall would work a little better than the YPT4400. Anyone agree/disagree with this?

PewterZ28

iTrader: (1)

No, actually the torque peaks at 4900. So a 4400 stall would be perfect, correct?

MUSTANGEATER

iTrader: (10)

Yes get ahold of Ed and yes I noticed just making sure you knew who he was

I'm thinking the Big Heads are the AFR 225 CC

CamaroCain

iTrader: (1)

if i had to choose between the two I would say MTI heads and a cam swap like many others have said.

SSideExhLS1

iTrader: (1)

cant beat the performance for the price on the 2E's, i would go for the MTIs, they have always been the simply the best.