Possibly getting an MS3 cam
Possibly getting an MS3 cam Hi guys, I have a 2002 M6 Trans am, and as of right now it has an slp lid, Speed Engineering LT headers and a GMMG cat back. I would like to set up the car for AutoX/Road racing with occasional quarter mile. Im looking to get as close to 500hp N/A as possible. I know someone who will be selling a brand new MS3 with 113 LSA. Would this cam be a good choice for me? Or should I go with something else? The car is sort of a daily. Thank you.
Some people are more tolerant of larger cams then others so you will get mixed opinions. I am just stating what seems to be the general consensus for the LS1 over the last 19yrs. Not really a new topic here and a search would pull up hours of reading material.
MS3 is a good cam, but it needs all the supporting mods to work well. It also is hard on valvesprings, so plan on checking and possibly replacing them every 10-12k miles. Have people driven this cam daily, yes...are there better cams suited for a street car, yes. IMO for a fun Street car you want a cam that still has a strong mid range. The sweet spot for a LS1 with a good balance of mid range power and top end is 228/232 range. Yea you can go bigger, but you sacrifice power under the curve for peak power and driveability begins to suffer.
Some people are more tolerant of larger cams then others so you will get mixed opinions. I am just stating what seems to be the general consensus for the LS1 over the last 19yrs. Not really a new topic here and a search would pull up hours of reading material.
Some people are more tolerant of larger cams then others so you will get mixed opinions. I am just stating what seems to be the general consensus for the LS1 over the last 19yrs. Not really a new topic here and a search would pull up hours of reading material.
Originally Posted by kinglt-1
MS3 is a good cam, but it needs all the supporting mods to work well. It also is hard on valvesprings, so plan on checking and possibly replacing them every 10-12k miles. Have people driven this cam daily, yes...are there better cams suited for a street car, yes. IMO for a fun Street car you want a cam that still has a strong mid range. The sweet spot for a LS1 with a good balance of mid range power and top end is 228/232 range. Yea you can go bigger, but you sacrifice power under the curve for peak power and driveability begins to suffer.
Some people are more tolerant of larger cams then others so you will get mixed opinions. I am just stating what seems to be the general consensus for the LS1 over the last 19yrs. Not really a new topic here and a search would pull up hours of reading material.
Some people are more tolerant of larger cams then others so you will get mixed opinions. I am just stating what seems to be the general consensus for the LS1 over the last 19yrs. Not really a new topic here and a search would pull up hours of reading material.
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not even going to come close with your mod list.
for 500 whp you need a killer set of heads, ported fast intake, light weight valve train, true dual exhaust with 1 7/8 headers, EWP, UDP, very efficient drive train...etc.
460-480whp would still take all of this plus a mild cam shaft instead of the MS3.
You might hit 430-440 on a generous dyno cam only with a ported fast and TD exhaust.
for 500 whp you need a killer set of heads, ported fast intake, light weight valve train, true dual exhaust with 1 7/8 headers, EWP, UDP, very efficient drive train...etc.
460-480whp would still take all of this plus a mild cam shaft instead of the MS3.
You might hit 430-440 on a generous dyno cam only with a ported fast and TD exhaust.
not even going to come close with your mod list.
for 500 whp you need a killer set of heads, ported fast intake, light weight valve train, true dual exhaust with 1 7/8 headers, EWP, UDP, very efficient drive train...etc.
460-480whp would still take all of this plus a mild cam shaft instead of the MS3.
You might hit 430-440 on a generous dyno cam only with a ported fast and TD exhaust.
for 500 whp you need a killer set of heads, ported fast intake, light weight valve train, true dual exhaust with 1 7/8 headers, EWP, UDP, very efficient drive train...etc.
460-480whp would still take all of this plus a mild cam shaft instead of the MS3.
You might hit 430-440 on a generous dyno cam only with a ported fast and TD exhaust.
I would run something different personally but that's just me, especially if you lpan on autoX/road racing. You can get the same power out of a smaller cam while still maintaining decent driveability and a stronger lower end and midrange. But as previously stated, you will need an extensive amount of supporting mods to make that kinda power no matter what cam you decide on so get your pocket book ready.
I would run something different personally but that's just me, especially if you lpan on autoX/road racing. You can get the same power out of a smaller cam while still maintaining decent driveability and a stronger lower end and midrange. But as previously stated, you will need an extensive amount of supporting mods to make that kinda power no matter what cam you decide on so get your pocket book ready.
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 136
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Vlad, take a look at some of TSP's dyno sheets. Here is the train of thought I had when buying a cam for my l92/lq4 setup.
Checkout texas speed stage 1 dyno sheet here:
http://www.texas-speed.com/images/media/225230.jpg
Stage 3 dyno sheet here:
http://www.texas-speed.com/images/me...Cam231.236.jpg
Stage 1 cam is a 225/230 112LSA which means 3.5 degrees crank overlap
Stage 3 cam is a 231/236 111LSA which means 11.5 degress crank overlap
Stage 1 makes 560hp, stage 2 makes 569hp. So 9hp difference peak.
Now look at the low end of things The stage 1 cam makes a minimum of 10-20hp more than the stock LS3 cam from 2200 RPM up. At 4500rpm and up it makes up to 80hp more than stock.
Time for the stage 3 cam. It makes nearly stock power until 4500rpm or so.
The torque curves tell the same story.
Ultimately the 225/230 on a 111LSA is what I chose. The small 225/230 will be much more driveable and make MORE POWER than the big cam under 4500RPM. Considering I problably will shift this thing around 6000RPM at the track, the big cam didn't look like it would do much for me. The degrees of overlap is what really did it for me. The big cam would sound a little gnarlier, but drive like garbage at low RPM.
225/230 112 still sounds great
Checkout texas speed stage 1 dyno sheet here:
http://www.texas-speed.com/images/media/225230.jpg
Stage 3 dyno sheet here:
http://www.texas-speed.com/images/me...Cam231.236.jpg
Stage 1 cam is a 225/230 112LSA which means 3.5 degrees crank overlap
Stage 3 cam is a 231/236 111LSA which means 11.5 degress crank overlap
Stage 1 makes 560hp, stage 2 makes 569hp. So 9hp difference peak.
Now look at the low end of things The stage 1 cam makes a minimum of 10-20hp more than the stock LS3 cam from 2200 RPM up. At 4500rpm and up it makes up to 80hp more than stock.
Time for the stage 3 cam. It makes nearly stock power until 4500rpm or so.
The torque curves tell the same story.
Ultimately the 225/230 on a 111LSA is what I chose. The small 225/230 will be much more driveable and make MORE POWER than the big cam under 4500RPM. Considering I problably will shift this thing around 6000RPM at the track, the big cam didn't look like it would do much for me. The degrees of overlap is what really did it for me. The big cam would sound a little gnarlier, but drive like garbage at low RPM.
225/230 112 still sounds great
