So working on file fitting some Total Seal CR-1009-35 rings for 4.030 bore. Got all the top an second rings done an gapped.

My question is the damn Oiler rings need filing as well how the hell do file those flimsy guys?
Is there a better technique? Do you simply file one side down or take even amounts off both ends???

Im lost any help is appreciated! I know the gap isnt as critical on the oiler ring as gap can very a bit more however i cant find a good safe way to file it?

Thanks
Chris

 

Most file fit ring sets that I've seen don't need the oil rings filed. They don't see a ton of heat and therefore don't need a wide gap. I would think .008"-.012"
Assuming you have a conventional ring set and not a gapless, I'd go .018"-.020" and .026"-.028" secondary for naturally aspirated.

 

Well Total Seal told me for my NA application to run top an second ring both @ .019" and oiler ring .015 or bigger but i dont currently have .015 the oiler actually touches end to end when placed in the bore or at least it appears that way to me.

Chris

 

My Wiseco oil rings also did this. I just opened them up to ".010. Doesn't take long to remove this material if using some type of ring grinding tool so be very carefull.

If you screw up,
I have a ton of new rings in a 4.030 bore. Wiseco's. GFX rings. I'd be happy to mail you any if you overshoot on them...

 

The question is not filling the really tiny thin oiler rings but the fat "Expander" Ring that is the one that is touching or seems to be touching when I put it in the bore. That is the one I am questioning filing? And how to do so? Or just leave it be?

And thanks for offering the rings! I will definitely let ya know if I screw up! lol

 

The expanders are supposed to touch. That's how they create tension on the rails to wipe the oil off the bores
The secondary ring needs to have a larger gap than the primary in order to reduce inter ring pressure which causes primary flutter. This is why many piston manufacturers machine away the material between the two compression rings. Creating more area equals less inter ring pressure
When done properly, the primary ring stays seated/sealed against the wall for a greater number of crankshaft degrees passed top dead center
Simply capturing more POP on the north side of the slug

 

So just to be clear A.R. Shale Targa... Your Telling me the Manufacture(Total Seal) is quoting me the WRONG end gap for my application with their rings?

SOUNDS NUTS to me!!!!!!!

 

He is correct. Normally you want to have the second gap larger than the first. I see this on Total Seal paperwork but ignore it. Almost every other ring manufacturer has it the way AR says.

In the third ring groove, you have the expander and two rails (see picture below). The two rails need a gap, the expander doesn't. It is supposed to touch. You may want to call them again and make sure there wasn't a misunderstanding.

 

There was no misunderstanding Total Seal said In the Third Groove, both rails should be min. gap of .015" anything over slightly was fine.

My question all along was only about the "EXPANDER RING" in the 3rd groove which was probably my Fault for not being clear on cause I didnt know the proper term "EXPANDER" when I was referring to it.

The question has been answered now! Thank you ALL I dont need to file the expander ring and it should touch this is normal that is all I needed to know!

Thanks again.

"I simply thought he was stating my TOP ring and SECOND ring meaning 1st groove and 2nd groove where not gapped correctly at .019" as I have them both gapped at currently per the ring manufacture."

 

I got a NUTS Total Seal story for ya
How bout a standard set of oil rings packaged with .030" compression rings
I still believe in their product but they issue standard guidelines which will work for you
I'm not saying they are wrong but rather scientific research has proven that some power can be had by reverse gapping
A Grand Sport LS3 I took apart showed .014" primary and .024" secondary gaps from GM's hand assembly room

I was speaking about the compression rings. There was a Hot Rod mag article a few years back that referenced how NASCAR had been doung this procedure since the mid/late nineties
I was merely trying to help you, however you could just as well leave them alone and be fine

 

Understood Tony. Not saying your theory or NASCAR for that matter is wrong either "IM the guy that doesnt know" just hard to go against what the manufacture tells you. I did ask them again the question about the compression rings on gapping cause "others" had recommended a bigger secondary gap and the response from the email was:

"Ring flutter can happen at 8750 rpm. If you match the end gaps, the top ring will tighten up more than the 2nd ring, thus the 2nd ring having more end gap. Opinions are like noses, everybody has one. I try to deal with facts."

Again not sure whom to trust and why? Who is right who is wrong is there a wrong and right? LOL follow me?

 

He is saying the same thing, effectively he top will be tighter than the second, he's just wanting less difference between the top and second ring. I don't know what advantage there is to running the second ring tighter, but I don't think looser is going to hurt anything unless there's too much blowby through the top ring.

 

Understood! Again KCS and All on the Forum I appreciate All and every idea and piece of advice. I am like a sponge I try to soak up as much as I can and love this Forum and turn to you all quite often thanks again to everyone that chimed in its ALL appreciated!

Chris