Stock HP Potential
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Stock HP Potential Hello everyone. I'm new here and also new to the LS world, so please excuse me if I say something stupid.
I'm posting because I just recently picked up an LS1 GenIII from summit racing for my 76 Datsun 280Z project. (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-4853L)
The question that I have is, if I build the rotating assembly with OEM spec parts; how much boost/HP will the bottom end hold? I know there are several factors that can play into failure of an engine, i.e. tuning, heat, pre det.... but I want to avoid considering those factors right now to make things less complicated.
I'm trying to determine the strength of the bottom end to see if I should be looking at forged parts or will cast do... My goal is to make 450/450 on 1bar with a single snail. I don't want to over build the engine because my money needs to be put into other aspects of the car (trans, electronics, turbo parts, suspension, body work), but I also want a little room on the engine to bump up HP if 450 gets old.
Input? Thoughts? Recommendations?
I'm posting because I just recently picked up an LS1 GenIII from summit racing for my 76 Datsun 280Z project. (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-4853L)
The question that I have is, if I build the rotating assembly with OEM spec parts; how much boost/HP will the bottom end hold? I know there are several factors that can play into failure of an engine, i.e. tuning, heat, pre det.... but I want to avoid considering those factors right now to make things less complicated.
I'm trying to determine the strength of the bottom end to see if I should be looking at forged parts or will cast do... My goal is to make 450/450 on 1bar with a single snail. I don't want to over build the engine because my money needs to be put into other aspects of the car (trans, electronics, turbo parts, suspension, body work), but I also want a little room on the engine to bump up HP if 450 gets old.
Input? Thoughts? Recommendations?
Restricted User
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 7,192
Likes: 109
From: Ohio
The LS1 is probably the worst Gen 3 for boost.
From the link you bought a 4.8/5.3 block, much better for boost.
If you're going to go through the trouble of buying a block and building it, why not just buy a full running pull-out with wiring/ecu and accessories for $400 or so?
450/450 on a Gen 3 will last indefinitely, but you'll likely make a lot more than that on 14 lbs depending on turbo.
From the link you bought a 4.8/5.3 block, much better for boost.
If you're going to go through the trouble of buying a block and building it, why not just buy a full running pull-out with wiring/ecu and accessories for $400 or so?
450/450 on a Gen 3 will last indefinitely, but you'll likely make a lot more than that on 14 lbs depending on turbo.
FormerVendor
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 432
Likes: 7
Like JoeNova said if you are looking to use a completely stock rotating assembly you probably will come out ahead looking around and finding a deal on an assembled used pullout engine. With your goals of 450HP you shouldn't have any issues with strength. Even when you decide to turn it up to say 550-650 the factory components still hold up extremely well with a proper tune.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,798
Likes: 16
From: St.Charles MO
Check out the FI section:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction-9/
Read the stickies:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...turbo-faq.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...lity-list.html
Also most stock LS1's make 450rwhp on 5-8psi, you will make a ton more on 14psi...
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction-9/
Read the stickies:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...turbo-faq.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...lity-list.html
Also most stock LS1's make 450rwhp on 5-8psi, you will make a ton more on 14psi...
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Guys, sorry for the late reply. Thanks a ton for the info.
Joe, initially my intentions were to go with an LS1 but i wound up going with a Gen I SBC because it was free. Once I started rebuilding the SBC that deal from Summit came up, I was also able to get a Military discount which put the block around 275 bucks for a known good LS1 short block. If I had purchased a used LS1 I would have tore it down and replaced the rotating assembly just for peace of mind... Yea I miss out on all the bits and pieces but I'll know my engine through and through.
Aaron, Thanks for the confirmation... I'm coming from the BMW world where a stock N54 will hold a tremendous amount of boost and HP (given all other variables are good) before they let go.
JD, Thanks for the link. I'm gonna start my reading now. I searched the whole forum but it probably would have been more effective to search the FI section. lol
Joe, initially my intentions were to go with an LS1 but i wound up going with a Gen I SBC because it was free. Once I started rebuilding the SBC that deal from Summit came up, I was also able to get a Military discount which put the block around 275 bucks for a known good LS1 short block. If I had purchased a used LS1 I would have tore it down and replaced the rotating assembly just for peace of mind... Yea I miss out on all the bits and pieces but I'll know my engine through and through.
Aaron, Thanks for the confirmation... I'm coming from the BMW world where a stock N54 will hold a tremendous amount of boost and HP (given all other variables are good) before they let go.
JD, Thanks for the link. I'm gonna start my reading now. I searched the whole forum but it probably would have been more effective to search the FI section. lol
Restricted User
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 7,192
Likes: 109
From: Ohio
Guys, sorry for the late reply. Thanks a ton for the info.
Joe, initially my intentions were to go with an LS1 but i wound up going with a Gen I SBC because it was free. Once I started rebuilding the SBC that deal from Summit came up, I was also able to get a Military discount which put the block around 275 bucks for a known good LS1 short block. If I had purchased a used LS1 I would have tore it down and replaced the rotating assembly just for peace of mind... Yea I miss out on all the bits and pieces but I'll know my engine through and through.
Aaron, Thanks for the confirmation... I'm coming from the BMW world where a stock N54 will hold a tremendous amount of boost and HP (given all other variables are good) before they let go.
JD, Thanks for the link. I'm gonna start my reading now. I searched the whole forum but it probably would have been more effective to search the FI section. lol
Joe, initially my intentions were to go with an LS1 but i wound up going with a Gen I SBC because it was free. Once I started rebuilding the SBC that deal from Summit came up, I was also able to get a Military discount which put the block around 275 bucks for a known good LS1 short block. If I had purchased a used LS1 I would have tore it down and replaced the rotating assembly just for peace of mind... Yea I miss out on all the bits and pieces but I'll know my engine through and through.
Aaron, Thanks for the confirmation... I'm coming from the BMW world where a stock N54 will hold a tremendous amount of boost and HP (given all other variables are good) before they let go.
JD, Thanks for the link. I'm gonna start my reading now. I searched the whole forum but it probably would have been more effective to search the FI section. lol
There are 6 cars right now sitting into the 8.0-8.1 second quarter mile range on bone stock LS shortblocks, we are holding our breath waiting on someone to break into the 7s on a junkyard engine.
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Restricted User
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 7,192
Likes: 109
From: Ohio
I just seen J2Z lol! Autocorrect.
Look for the floating pin rods and pistons.
The 4.8 stuff is stronger but you'll need a 4.8 crank.
The 5.3 stuff has longer stroke and shares a crank with the 5.7, 6.0, and 6.2. You can still make insane power on the 5.3 stuff. A quick Google search and you can find a 1300 HP dyno on a stock floating rod 5.3.
Look for the floating pin rods and pistons.
The 4.8 stuff is stronger but you'll need a 4.8 crank.
The 5.3 stuff has longer stroke and shares a crank with the 5.7, 6.0, and 6.2. You can still make insane power on the 5.3 stuff. A quick Google search and you can find a 1300 HP dyno on a stock floating rod 5.3.
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Hah, 2jz-gte. I have a ton of experience tuning the 2jz-gte. In stock trim I have seen them put down 800rwhp dynojet at sea level, around 28~psi of boost on C16 "tuned" with a SAFC.
The 2jz is too small IMO for that kind of power to be a fun daily. Good for dyno numbers or drag racing but you lose so much under the curve the car becomes drag-only. Not my style. I would keep a 2jz-gte around 550rwhp and automatic, if you really wanted a fun 3000lb daily driver. You can still use the "SAFC" style ($150 tune) if you are being super cheap, it will last over 50k miles that way, I've seen it. One of the good things about the 2j is the great valvetrain/head.
The biggest problem is the 2jz-gte isn't super cheap the way an LSx is, and is half the displacement. It really starts to fall out of desire once the vehicle weight goes over 3000lbs also. LSx is hands down, one of the best power/$$ ratio when turbo I have ever been witness to.
The 2jz is too small IMO for that kind of power to be a fun daily. Good for dyno numbers or drag racing but you lose so much under the curve the car becomes drag-only. Not my style. I would keep a 2jz-gte around 550rwhp and automatic, if you really wanted a fun 3000lb daily driver. You can still use the "SAFC" style ($150 tune) if you are being super cheap, it will last over 50k miles that way, I've seen it. One of the good things about the 2j is the great valvetrain/head.
The biggest problem is the 2jz-gte isn't super cheap the way an LSx is, and is half the displacement. It really starts to fall out of desire once the vehicle weight goes over 3000lbs also. LSx is hands down, one of the best power/$$ ratio when turbo I have ever been witness to.