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Detailed Camshaft Selection Question

Old Jan 26, 2017 | 11:30 AM
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Default Detailed Camshaft Selection Question

Preface:
I have done some research on this topic, and have found mixed results and opinions. I am looking for facts and in depth explanation if any knowledgeable individuals are willing to provide it or possibly point me in the correct direction. (dyno sheets and time slips illustrating responses would also be greatly appreciated)

On to the question:
In my specific case, I have a bone stock '02 z06, and I have an end goal of a Cam/blower/meth setup in the 600-650 rwhp range. As of right now, I do not quite have the funds for the blower, but would like some extra power for the upcoming car season and could probably swing a cam and headers. My question is, in a nutshell, will the car make power safely and reliably with a "blower cam", but without a blower? Also, will a typical "NA cam" make power safely and reliably with a blower? What EXACTLY is it about big NA cams with large amounts of overlap that limits performance with a centrifugal supercharger setup? As a mechanical engineering student, I am looking for science and details if possible. I would like to get over the 400rwhp mark with the cam only setup, have a nice, choppy idle, and be able the throw a blower on a year or two down the road without swapping cams again. Is this possible? If so, any cam recommendations? Thanks in advance.
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Old Jan 26, 2017 | 03:25 PM
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I'm pretty sure most people are worried that too much overlap in a boosted application would allow some of that boost to escape out of the exhaust. It's probably worse in a supercharged application since you have less back pressure in the exhaust than a turbo, therefore a higher pressure differential exists between the exhaust and intake manifold.
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Old Jan 26, 2017 | 04:36 PM
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I run a supercharger cam NA right now. It's find in an NA car. And it'll work better in a supercharged engine.

One thing to note... if you want a turbo, an NA type of cam is actually going to be better than the longer duration splits you see with superchargers. So like my cam is a 227/244 115... a comparable Turbo cam would probably be a 226/231 113 or something like that. And you'll find a lot of 227/231 or 228/232 112 or 114 cams NA. So if it'll work NA, it'll work for a turbo (within reason). But overlap becomes the big concern.

Stay with something in the 8 degree or overlap realm or less. And it'll do fine with boost.
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Old Jan 27, 2017 | 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 1995_maro_z
Preface:
I have done some research on this topic, and have found mixed results and opinions. I am looking for facts and in depth explanation if any knowledgeable individuals are willing to provide it or possibly point me in the correct direction. (dyno sheets and time slips illustrating responses would also be greatly appreciated)

On to the question:
In my specific case, I have a bone stock '02 z06, and I have an end goal of a Cam/blower/meth setup in the 600-650 rwhp range. As of right now, I do not quite have the funds for the blower, but would like some extra power for the upcoming car season and could probably swing a cam and headers. My question is, in a nutshell, will the car make power safely and reliably with a "blower cam", but without a blower? Also, will a typical "NA cam" make power safely and reliably with a blower? What EXACTLY is it about big NA cams with large amounts of overlap that limits performance with a centrifugal supercharger setup? As a mechanical engineering student, I am looking for science and details if possible. I would like to get over the 400rwhp mark with the cam only setup, have a nice, choppy idle, and be able the throw a blower on a year or two down the road without swapping cams again. Is this possible? If so, any cam recommendations? Thanks in advance.
Sorry I'm not answering any of your questions here but wanted to give you my .02 on your plans. You mentioned having an end goal of a blower car but don't currently have all the funds for it...I've seen a lot of end goals adjust as time passes so I'd personally do whatever modifications now that won't make a difference whether you go FI or not if that makes sense. You mentioned headers, that's a great start right there no matter what direction you take your car next. You can certainly put in a blower cam now, plenty of people run them NA but if there's any chance your plans change and you want to go all out NA then you may decide you want to change the cam.

Something you could do right now to gain a few hp for free is the zip-tie mod to the stock air box, I've seen dyno results of around ~+10rwhp in some cases. Also, don't forget to budget for a diff brace for that car when you go FI, with 600+rwhp you're gonna want one.
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Old Jan 28, 2017 | 01:35 AM
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1995maroz, if your Z06 is still stock, I would check out Halltech's Killer Bee cold air set up. It should help now and maybe work some o f the forced induction set ups later. Should work well with headers also. As for good NA cams that are also good FI cams, something like a Lingenfelter GT14 might work 223/235 duration @ .050 lift - .610/.620 lift with 1.7 rocker 115.0 CL.

Per Halltech's website...

Facts: expect to gain +24 HP (see attached dyno) vs. the stock intake and +12 RWHP over the Vararam (see dyno) The Halltech Killer Bee™ II 2001-2004 C6 LS1/LS6 Conversion Package will provide airflow to 800 HP on the LS6/LS1, so it may be overkill for the average LS6. The package includes the all new C5 Killer Bee™ II Cold Air Induction System designed originally for the C6Z06, and includes the MAF Adapter Hi-Density Small 5 pin to GT Pigtail and the Delphi LS7 MAF sensor, Reprogramming the MAF curve is not optional since the new probe style MAF requires a totally different curve. We will make the Lingenfelter MAF transfer curve tables available free of charge. They may need to be tweaked a bit, but you will get the car running with our MAF calibration tables.
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Old Jan 28, 2017 | 03:49 AM
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It should be relatively easy to get over 400 to the wheels with a cam + lts in a ls6. I have lg lts I've been meaning to put on. My time looking on the forums say you should be around 390 just with lts and a tune. Seems like your looking for a decent sized cam, so I don't see why you shouldn't be able to hit 420ish cam only. Depends on how things go, hoping to do a cam this spring. maybe p+p the stock ls6 heads. Depends on the size of the cam but the ls6 with worked heads and a decent cam can hit 440.
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Old Jan 29, 2017 | 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JakeFusion
I run a supercharger cam NA right now. It's find in an NA car. And it'll work better in a supercharged engine.

One thing to note... if you want a turbo, an NA type of cam is actually going to be better than the longer duration splits you see with superchargers. So like my cam is a 227/244 115... a comparable Turbo cam would probably be a 226/231 113 or something like that. And you'll find a lot of 227/231 or 228/232 112 or 114 cams NA. So if it'll work NA, it'll work for a turbo (within reason). But overlap becomes the big concern.

Stay with something in the 8 degree or overlap realm or less. And it'll do fine with boost.
Thanks for the reply. Many of the cams that I considered and researched for the fbody that I used to have had 12+ degrees of overlap! (I wound up selling all of my parts and the car and buying the z06 instead of going h/c/i.. still deciding if that was good idea... LOL) I believe that I may have found a camshaft that fits the bill for my current situation though. It has 6 degrees of overlap. The specs are: 230/242 .608"/.615" 115+4

Originally Posted by StealthFormula
Sorry I'm not answering any of your questions here but wanted to give you my .02 on your plans. You mentioned having an end goal of a blower car but don't currently have all the funds for it...I've seen a lot of end goals adjust as time passes so I'd personally do whatever modifications now that won't make a difference whether you go FI or not if that makes sense. You mentioned headers, that's a great start right there no matter what direction you take your car next. You can certainly put in a blower cam now, plenty of people run them NA but if there's any chance your plans change and you want to go all out NA then you may decide you want to change the cam.

Something you could do right now to gain a few hp for free is the zip-tie mod to the stock air box, I've seen dyno results of around ~+10rwhp in some cases. Also, don't forget to budget for a diff brace for that car when you go FI, with 600+rwhp you're gonna want one.
The dte diff/trans brace and hpe diff mount (similar to the pfadt one) Are the only things done to the car (i still consider that stock), had them installed within like a week of owning it for cheap insurance, as I did/do plan on drag racing it.

Originally Posted by 99 Black Bird T/A
1995maroz, if your Z06 is still stock, I would check out Halltech's Killer Bee cold air set up. It should help now and maybe work some o f the forced induction set ups later. Should work well with headers also. As for good NA cams that are also good FI cams, something like a Lingenfelter GT14 might work 223/235 duration @ .050 lift - .610/.620 lift with 1.7 rocker 115.0 CL.

Per Halltech's website...

Facts: expect to gain +24 HP (see attached dyno) vs. the stock intake and +12 RWHP over the Vararam (see dyno) The Halltech Killer Bee™ II 2001-2004 C6 LS1/LS6 Conversion Package will provide airflow to 800 HP on the LS6/LS1, so it may be overkill for the average LS6. The package includes the all new C5 Killer Bee™ II Cold Air Induction System designed originally for the C6Z06, and includes the MAF Adapter Hi-Density Small 5 pin to GT Pigtail and the Delphi LS7 MAF sensor, Reprogramming the MAF curve is not optional since the new probe style MAF requires a totally different curve. We will make the Lingenfelter MAF transfer curve tables available free of charge. They may need to be tweaked a bit, but you will get the car running with our MAF calibration tables.
I may look into the zip tie mod, as StealthFormula mentioned, but I don't really want to fork out the cash for a CAI if I am going to go FI.

Originally Posted by Swoop Dogg
It should be relatively easy to get over 400 to the wheels with a cam + lts in a ls6. I have lg lts I've been meaning to put on. My time looking on the forums say you should be around 390 just with lts and a tune. Seems like your looking for a decent sized cam, so I don't see why you shouldn't be able to hit 420ish cam only. Depends on how things go, hoping to do a cam this spring. maybe p+p the stock ls6 heads. Depends on the size of the cam but the ls6 with worked heads and a decent cam can hit 440.
Yeah, it seems as though anywhere from about 420-450 whp is the norm for cam only LS6's with big radical NA cams. I am just having trouble finding results of cars either with a "blower cam" in an NA car, or with a big, lopey NA cam in a blown car, which totally makes sense. Neither of those really make any sense in most situations.
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Old Jan 29, 2017 | 10:34 PM
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That sounds like a great cam actually
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Old Jan 29, 2017 | 11:05 PM
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That looks like the Jam Cam. Or one of them. It is an awesome cam.

I went with one step smaller.
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Old Jan 30, 2017 | 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by JakeFusion
That looks like the Jam Cam. Or one of them. It is an awesome cam.

I went with one step smaller.
It is the jam cam! Specifically the one on Brian Tooley's website.
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Old Jan 30, 2017 | 09:23 AM
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Awesome. I called Brian and talked to him about that one and he actually steered me to the 227 cam. It's the same 6 degrees of overlap, but he said he had seen it work better. So I went with his advice. He also told me of how Comp had stepped up their game and made me comfortable with going that route when I had been a big critic of their QC in the past.
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Old Jan 30, 2017 | 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by JakeFusion
Awesome. I called Brian and talked to him about that one and he actually steered me to the 227 cam. It's the same 6 degrees of overlap, but he said he had seen it work better. So I went with his advice. He also told me of how Comp had stepped up their game and made me comfortable with going that route when I had been a big critic of their QC in the past.
Good deal. I will certainly be giving him a call before I pull the trigger on anything hahah
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