Budget Head and Cam
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2017
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OP if it were me I would make 1 of 2 choices. If you have ls6 heads in your possession, I would get work done on those. You will save 700 bucks and loose out on maybe 10-15hp I mean who knows really? Always take those numbers with a grain of salt because most people will BS you and dynos are a horrible way to measure performance anyhow. That's why I originally recommended AFR because they work and everyone knows they work. If you do not have ls6 heads, I would get the tfs 220 heads and cam package with a mild cam. Maximize midrange torque potential. Oh and There is more to cylinder heads than 13 vs 15 deg...if you can dish out an extra 600 over TFS then call AFR they WILL give you a combo that makes power if and only if you are honest with your application and goals. What I mean is don't call them and in your mind want a quick street car, but tell them you want to make as much peak hp as possible. Doesn't work that way.
Youd lose out on more power than that and more tq also.
The 243/799 heads are good and need very little to actually perform and yes they are the best budget stock head to use esp on ls1 or smaller.
You arent buying a used head with trick flow or even a reworked stock used casting though. Plus stainless valves etc etc. There isnt a real comparison between them.
If yiu want a budget build with stock heads use the 243/799. If you have a larger budget use trick flow.
Thats what i would do. Buying a set of stock castings to send off to some place to get reworked is a popular option but normally will run you either close or right at the price of the trick flows.
The 243/799 heads are good and need very little to actually perform and yes they are the best budget stock head to use esp on ls1 or smaller.
You arent buying a used head with trick flow or even a reworked stock used casting though. Plus stainless valves etc etc. There isnt a real comparison between them.
If yiu want a budget build with stock heads use the 243/799. If you have a larger budget use trick flow.
Thats what i would do. Buying a set of stock castings to send off to some place to get reworked is a popular option but normally will run you either close or right at the price of the trick flows.
TECH Fanatic
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Hey Tech@Ws6 do you guys have any track results with those tfs heads vs AFR or ported LS6 heads? I mean if those TFS heads are making more than a couple Tenths than ls6 heads at the track then I would be more inclined to start saving for a pair from you.
No. The only track i go to lately is the horse track...its close and easier on the wallet. ;-)
The theory is there. The options also. The internet is a huge resource, search and youll find.
The theory is there. The options also. The internet is a huge resource, search and youll find.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,758
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Welp I believe the OP has enough info to make a decision. I think he at least owes you a phone call. Ill leave with saying that I have done business with WS6store before and they treated me very well. I recommend them.
We are going through some growing pains moving into a new shop etc etc and and just now getting around to making new parts. So far our new high lift hot cam is the first bull out of the chute. Tomorrow is dyno day vs the orig hot cam.
Next up...we have a few ideas kicking around. A back to back comparo with heads sounds good, but not at the track. Dyno would show real gains. ill keep that in mind.
Next up...we have a few ideas kicking around. A back to back comparo with heads sounds good, but not at the track. Dyno would show real gains. ill keep that in mind.
Cheaper option is sending your current heads to TEA and grabbing a FAST 102 to pair with it. That's $1900+TB cost (which might throw your budget out of whack unless you do an ebay special) and will walk a TFS 220s paired with an LS1/LS6 intake.
I don't put a lot of stock in aftermarket casting heads on a 3.9" bore. They don't flow enough to make a **** of difference, especially with homogenizing plastic intakes. The MSD might be a good option, but I think you'd need a lot of high-end parts or a swap over to an LLSR to make use of it.
But you grab some stock ported heads that have been worked by a company that knows what they are doing... you're going to surprise a lot of people. And you don't need a ton of cam to be fast.
I don't put a lot of stock in aftermarket casting heads on a 3.9" bore. They don't flow enough to make a **** of difference, especially with homogenizing plastic intakes. The MSD might be a good option, but I think you'd need a lot of high-end parts or a swap over to an LLSR to make use of it.
But you grab some stock ported heads that have been worked by a company that knows what they are doing... you're going to surprise a lot of people. And you don't need a ton of cam to be fast.
TECH Fanatic
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Cheaper option is sending your current heads to TEA and grabbing a FAST 102 to pair with it. That's $1900+TB cost (which might throw your budget out of whack unless you do an ebay special) and will walk a TFS 220s paired with an LS1/LS6 intake.
I don't put a lot of stock in aftermarket casting heads on a 3.9" bore. They don't flow enough to make a **** of difference, especially with homogenizing plastic intakes. The MSD might be a good option, but I think you'd need a lot of high-end parts or a swap over to an LLSR to make use of it.
But you grab some stock ported heads that have been worked by a company that knows what they are doing... you're going to surprise a lot of people. And you don't need a ton of cam to be fast.
I don't put a lot of stock in aftermarket casting heads on a 3.9" bore. They don't flow enough to make a **** of difference, especially with homogenizing plastic intakes. The MSD might be a good option, but I think you'd need a lot of high-end parts or a swap over to an LLSR to make use of it.
But you grab some stock ported heads that have been worked by a company that knows what they are doing... you're going to surprise a lot of people. And you don't need a ton of cam to be fast.
Or this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FAST-102mm-L...FVGa9K&vxp=mtr
Not quite 1900 bucks, but I dont know if its worth it...
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Verdad Gallardo Well, the TEA heads are around $1125:
http://www.totalengineairflow.com/pr...-5-7l-stage-1/
The FAST 102 can be had for $849: http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...r-ls1-ls2-ls6/
And the WARR Performance 92 TB can be had for $129.
So $2100. A little more than $1900. But within range of the budget.
http://www.totalengineairflow.com/pr...-5-7l-stage-1/
The FAST 102 can be had for $849: http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...r-ls1-ls2-ls6/
And the WARR Performance 92 TB can be had for $129.
So $2100. A little more than $1900. But within range of the budget.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2017
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0.100 67 60
0.200 137 113
0.300 202 163
0.400 249 202
0.500 288 228
0.550 292 237
0.600 296 244
Tests conducted at 28" of water, 4.00" bore, 1.875" x 4.0"Exh. pipe
So they try to advertise these numbers with a 5.7 while flowing for a pretty much a 6.0? This is to say he wont achieve these numbers.
0.200 137 113
0.300 202 163
0.400 249 202
0.500 288 228
0.550 292 237
0.600 296 244
Tests conducted at 28" of water, 4.00" bore, 1.875" x 4.0"Exh. pipe
So they try to advertise these numbers with a 5.7 while flowing for a pretty much a 6.0? This is to say he wont achieve these numbers.
Comparing a set of stock ported heads and a fast 102 with trick flow as cast and an ls6? Kinda stacking the deck arent you?
You dont need a fast 102 to make power anyway. The ls6 works ok. Then the 92 is another option. but that is a big price jump.
You dont need a fast 102 to make power anyway. The ls6 works ok. Then the 92 is another option. but that is a big price jump.
For the 102 dont forget fuel rails and adapters also.
Ignoring cyl head flow numbers doesnt make them any less valid. Nor does built in design that stock castings cannot duplicate.
You wouldnt reach the numbers with a fast intake on it either. That is not the point.
Ignoring cyl head flow numbers doesnt make them any less valid. Nor does built in design that stock castings cannot duplicate.
You wouldnt reach the numbers with a fast intake on it either. That is not the point.
Originally Posted by Bspeck82
There are alternatives and AFR makes power too...depends on how much he wants to fork out.
TECH Fanatic
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Doesnt the manifold flow only around 260cfm per port? So anyhing above that for head flow is mute, gains would be seen from port geometry to optimize air velocity and resistance. Among other similar things. This is why CFM at mid lift is important
Last edited by Bspeck82; May 23, 2017 at 10:30 PM.
Well a better head draws more cfm through a plastic intake.
But there is a point of diminishing returns. And one reason why you have to step up to a better intake to make more power.
And yes, ported stockers with a FAST 102 is stacking the deck... For roughly the same price. A FAST 92 would be a little cheaper, too. I think for a given budget, I would rather have decent heads and a better intake vs world beater heads and a crappy intake... if the budget allows for more mods later, then the better heads now and a FAST later make some sense.
But, at some point you're throwing good money after a few HP. Those TEA heads will pick up 45rwhp. What will the TFS heads pick up? 55 or 60? What will the FAST add? 25?
So you can start to see that you'd be just as smart to put that extra money into a rearend, suspension, or many other glorious things these cars need to be able to use that power. Or a nitrous system...
But there is a point of diminishing returns. And one reason why you have to step up to a better intake to make more power.
And yes, ported stockers with a FAST 102 is stacking the deck... For roughly the same price. A FAST 92 would be a little cheaper, too. I think for a given budget, I would rather have decent heads and a better intake vs world beater heads and a crappy intake... if the budget allows for more mods later, then the better heads now and a FAST later make some sense.
But, at some point you're throwing good money after a few HP. Those TEA heads will pick up 45rwhp. What will the TFS heads pick up? 55 or 60? What will the FAST add? 25?
So you can start to see that you'd be just as smart to put that extra money into a rearend, suspension, or many other glorious things these cars need to be able to use that power. Or a nitrous system...
The budget pretty much gets blown with a 1k intake. I think the best budget build would be some 243/799s with a good valve job, a good cam, and an ls6 intake. Then some gears. Maybe some suspension the like you said. Or fuel inj and fuel pump. youd only be $520 into a setup to handle 500 at the wheels which would be more than most heads cam setups do.
