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Everyone's idea of drivable is different. and every single car is different. some will work better some wont. the 98s with a slower comp and less resolution sometimes soak up more cam than newer fbodys. Gears make alot of diff with manual cars and a diff in autos also.
If your tune is spot on for a cam that has some overlap in a low rpm/map area like cruise, then its not spot on. Its been bandiaded to either add more air than normal, remove spark, or make it run more rich or any combo of those. Its a physical characteristic of overlap. BUT like i said every car is diff so some take more than others, but imo no more than a few degrees. As far as autos go, it depends on when or if thr tcc applies and how "loose" the converter is. Using a shorter tire height does provide more rpm/mph and can affect that as well. Ive seen tuners leave converter unlocked so it wont surge. I would never do that as it negates the whole idea of the tcc and makes quite a bit more heat and makes the car a bit more lazy.
So I am not at the point of doing the swap just yet but would like to get the ball rolling on getting a choice, what rpm are these motors comfortable spinning I do not want to spin a bearing or walk the crank I am just starting on learning about these cars after switching over from my 07 mustang GT and am glad I made the change, would never look back
The cam that has cought my attention the most has been the MS4 cam does anyone on here run this camshaft and if so how does it work as a DD in the summer, whatever cam I pick I would like to have the option to DD the car overall goal I am shooting for at the moment is to get the car into the 10.50 area
Currently I ordered 1 7/8 long tube headers into 3" and a 3" true dual x-pipe set up so those will be my only mods so far
On motor? An LS1? If so you're gonna find out quick thats a tough goal to reach. Im currently running damn near every mod in the book, car weighed 2975 (no driver) last track trip and Im running 10.80s. I would NOT choose an ms4 unless you want a 4000+ stall, willing to cut weight and gear the heck out of the car. I actually would choose something similar to what I have, it makes good midrange power and pulls clean to my 6800 shift, not gaining, and not falling off.
Off-topic, but how much is the SS4000 eating on the top end? Are you seeing 12-15% slip? If so, you can get that 10.80 down to 10.40 with a converter swap.
So its looking like the ms4 cam aint going to be for me, ive herd good things about brian tooley cams maybe ill see if i can get ahold of someone over there and get some help on cam selections i dont think id like driving my car around with a 4000+ stall and i really dont want to spin my motor to 6,800 rpm i want to make really good power but also have good life out of my motor so one these motors what would be pushing it as far as rpms on a stock bottom end?
So its looking like the ms4 cam aint going to be for me, ive herd good things about brian tooley cams maybe ill see if i can get ahold of someone over there and get some help on cam selections i dont think id like driving my car around with a 4000+ stall and i really dont want to spin my motor to 6,800 rpm i want to make really good power but also have good life out of my motor so one these motors what would be pushing it as far as rpms on a stock bottom end?
I wouldn't run it above 6600. Stick with mid 220 int duration, 226-230 exh duration cams. They will carry to about that and make good torque.
On stock autos not only are the pumps not made for 6500+ rpms but the clutches and spacer plate will take alot of extra abuse also. Id not recommend it unless you have a trans build planned in the future.
Thanks for the responses guys, is there anywhere that shows more information on the btr cams? Like powerband and what stall and gear combo would be recommended i see theres 4 different stages to the btr cams
Thanks for the responses guys, is there anywhere that shows more information on the btr cams? Like powerband and what stall and gear combo would be recommended i see theres 4 different stages to the btr cams
If you go to Google, punch in BTR stage 2 cam and put Ls1 after what you're searching for and there will be unlimited information
On stock autos not only are the pumps not made for 6500+ rpms but the clutches and spacer plate will take alot of extra abuse also. Id not recommend it unless you have a trans build planned in the future.
I have had my stock other then a Shift kit 4l60e up over 7k many times in the last 3 years. Its all in the tuning and keeping the heat out of the trans. I also do not skip shift it and it has low miles. Not something I do everyday either. It will get built when it starts to go south, but it's still holding strong.
Originally Posted by tech@WS6store
Most of the ms4 dynos ive seen plus doing a quick search show it die off at about 6500 or flatline...so 6800 or 7200 may be a bit optimistic. Maybe shifting there...but that woukd depend on gears and trans and tire height
Am I thinking of the MS3? I thought the MS3/MS4 cams ideally need a fast intake and rpm. Yea with a LS6 intake and a inadequate valvetrain(stock lifters small pushrods not correctly measured), 6500 rpm is about right. Good flowing intake, well sorted valve train, and that cam wants 7200 rpm.
Tuning wont change the pump or the fact that the pump rings that hold the vanes to the sides of the pump will distort or crack amd cause pumping loss, and the bypass spring will also open and allow pressure bypass.
It does help boost the pressure but not the physical losses inside.
Thanks for the responses guys, is there anywhere that shows more information on the btr cams? Like powerband and what stall and gear combo would be recommended i see theres 4 different stages to the btr cams
Get the btr stg 2 kit, get a 3k stall, change gears if you want (optional) and have fun.
Get the btr stg 2 kit, get a 3k stall, change gears if you want (optional) and have fun.
Stage 2 looks not too bad. I dont think it will make power under 3500 and will probably shift over 6800 so IMO for a street car, 3.73s are a minimum. If bottom end is stock and he wants something reliable, I would not rev over 6600. If your tuner asks (as he should) if the bottom end is stock, he will probably cut it off at 6600 anyways. Unless you tell him not too, but thats your choice. I think the BTR stage 1 would be a stealthy, potent choice. I would imagine it would make a very smooth torque curve and carry it until you shift.
In an LS2, not an LS1. Those cubes are enough to make the power curve top out and carry around 6500 in an LS2 and to around 6800 in an LS1. Which also means it will take a few hundred more RPM to "wake up" the car with the same cam.
That was an easy thread to reference, with a fast 90 or 92 on an fbody it does about the same with tsp 2.5 heads. There are about 30 graphs out there that show fairly similar results.
Stock style intake manifold runners etc are going to pretty much force peak tq at 4800 and peak power at 6300. You can try to cheat it with the cam, and you get those really wavy torque curves from it. But that doesn't mean the shift point should be 6500. Your gear splits and RPM drop are going to determine your shift points.
I'm on my phone right now so no time to show the math, but actual tq delivered to the tires at 7000 rpm in first is much higher than at peak tq in second. Even though the engine gains tq on the upshift. Gear multiplication works against.
I like a car that makes its best tq at 5200 and power at 6800-7000. Rev to 7400, hit 5000 on the upshift and ride that torque curve down. But even on a 4800/6300 tq/hp motor, I still like 7100 for shift points to minimize losses on the upshift.
05-26-2017, 05:30 PM
