suspected lifter problem advise needed
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suspected lifter problem advise needed I have never posted on here before but need some advise, I'm building an LR4 for a twin turbo installation in an Ultima Evolution. Engine has just come back from balancers and starting assembly. I have just fitted the heads and on measuring the pushrod lengths I have found that 2 of the Johnson 2116 lsr lifters are a long way off from the other 14 which range from 7.633 to 7.643, 2 lifters are at 7.692. Cam is Comp 277 lr hr 113. I didn't measure the cam before installation so am only guessing that the fault is with the lifters. Any advice appreciated before stripping engine again to find problem or maybe there's not one and this is normal and I need custom pushrods
Regards Tim
Regards Tim
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just had a reply from Randall Vrooman via Jared at BTR where I purchased the lifters. Below is his reply for everyone's information so custom length pushrods for me
It's not terribly uncommon to see that kind of range. That said,.060'' is on the extreme side of things. The lifters can vary about .020'' when you look at all the tolerance stack-up. We typically hold .0005'', if the parts all came from the same lot. We try to process everything one lot at a time because of this. But I can't do that for 100% of the parts,,,if I did we would be throwing away a **** ton of parts every year lol!
Add that up with valve seat variations,base circle etc, and you "could" see that much difference. If he's concerned,I'll defiantly take a look at them. Although, I doubt there's any issue. This is why you NEED to measure for pushrods if you are using lifters with under .100'' travel. You never even catch this with a drop in/factory lifter, and is exactly why they have .200'' travel.
It's not terribly uncommon to see that kind of range. That said,.060'' is on the extreme side of things. The lifters can vary about .020'' when you look at all the tolerance stack-up. We typically hold .0005'', if the parts all came from the same lot. We try to process everything one lot at a time because of this. But I can't do that for 100% of the parts,,,if I did we would be throwing away a **** ton of parts every year lol!
Add that up with valve seat variations,base circle etc, and you "could" see that much difference. If he's concerned,I'll defiantly take a look at them. Although, I doubt there's any issue. This is why you NEED to measure for pushrods if you are using lifters with under .100'' travel. You never even catch this with a drop in/factory lifter, and is exactly why they have .200'' travel.
Seems like a lot to me and would have me scratching my head for sure. Was both odd lengths on the same cylinder? Was there a valve job done on heads and have yo checked valve tip height compared to the others to see if possibly those 2 were cut deeper? And last thing I can think of quick have you tried pushing the plunger down on the 2 suspect lifters to see if possibly they are collapsed?
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Both odd lengths are on same cylinder 3, heads are brand new trick flow 215 cnc, cam is new comp ls hr 113 so I would hope these are all good. I will check later on today to see if I can see where the difference is and the collapsed lifter is a good call
Many thanks for your reply,will let you know what I find
Regards Tim
Many thanks for your reply,will let you know what I find
Regards Tim
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I suppose to rule out possible valve seat variation, you could pull off the rockers on that head and lay a straight edge across the valve stem tips. If you see a gap for those 2, then the valve seats may be taller in just those.
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After further measuring I have found that there is no spring compression in the 2 lifters that I'm concerned about, in the other 14 you can feel the spring pre load as you push down on them by hand but these 2 feel more like a solid lifter. I will contact the seller to see if they can sort out the problem.
Thanks for the advise, it's shortened the diagnosis time. Will let you know the outcome
Regards Tim
Thanks for the advise, it's shortened the diagnosis time. Will let you know the outcome
Regards Tim
Being as they're both on the same cylinder it would normally point to the head and valve seats being deeper (usually after a chamber repair). But with the tie bar lifter there is a possibility them lifter were form a different batch than the others. All you can do is check, double and triple check everything to make sure everything is right and hope for the best. Not sure if I'd build the motor with 2 pushrods .050" longer than the rest though, especially with a short travel lifter. The odds of messing that up down the road when something is changed is pretty good. If you do run like this Manton is real good to deal with for the pushrods and you could order them all different length if need be without extra charge.
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new parts can be scary. I won't start a serious engine build (beyond 550~rwhp for 10+ years of service) without being able to build an exact duplicate right next to it. Two is one and one is none.
On the other hand, 600 through an SBE seems doable for 10 years. So I skip the new parts go right for used OEM. There is an infinite supply of that.
You obviously won't fall into the 600 club, more like 9000 amirite. So you have no choice, buying new parts. And it always seems to be that one critical part that is difficult to measure somehow....
On the other hand, 600 through an SBE seems doable for 10 years. So I skip the new parts go right for used OEM. There is an infinite supply of that.
You obviously won't fall into the 600 club, more like 9000 amirite. So you have no choice, buying new parts. And it always seems to be that one critical part that is difficult to measure somehow....
Originally Posted by xrtim
After further measuring I have found that there is no spring compression in the 2 lifters that I'm concerned about, in the other 14 you can feel the spring pre load as you push down on them by hand but these 2 feel more like a solid lifter. I will contact the seller to see if they can sort out the problem.
Thanks for the advise, it's shortened the diagnosis time. Will let you know the outcome
Regards Tim
Thanks for the advise, it's shortened the diagnosis time. Will let you know the outcome
Regards Tim
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It must have left the factory like that, I can't see how it can collapse from taking a new part out of the box and installing it into an engine with no pressure on it, makes me wonder about the quality of the product.
It might have. I wasn't saying it was your fault. I was really just agreeing it was a lifter issue. Johnson lifters are very good lifters. You could just be really unlucky on this one.
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I'm annoyed that these lifters have gone through manufacture and quality control and out for sale. I suppose I should be glad that I caught this when I have and that no damage has been caused. The whole car build feels like its fighting me and now the engine. thanks to all for advice is really appreciated
Tim
Tim
If the plunger is down in the lifter, you might be able to see it with a flashlight or borescope that connects to your phone (not too much $$ and very useful). You can usually see the upper snap ring with the pushrod out of the way.
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Been Mailing Brian Tooley since Friday, not one single reply,never using them again,shocking customer service. Full marks to Randy Vrooman at Johnson he is sorting me 2 replacement lifters to get me back on track, just the wait until they arrive in UK