Fresh Rebuilt Engine Destroyed Several Bearings??
09-20-2018, 05:10 PM
#22
My L33 ate the thrust after a few hundred miles and 20 passes at 20+ psi. It went from .004” to .015”.
However, the rest of the bearings showed minor wear. Nothing like what yours look like.
I ran the stock bottom end for three years and everything looked excellent when I tore it down to add forged rods and pistons.
I changed 3 things. Rods, Pistons and bearings. Clevite H series
The trans and converter stayed in the car.
My mains btw were set to .002”, with the assumption that the alum block grows.
Anyway, my trans has the mod to reduce converter pressure, the converter is a PTC 9.5.
So I’m not so sure about the trans converter theory.
FWIW, new engines I fire them up, check fluids etc, then take it for a 20 minute drive and change the oil. As well as cut the filter.
No boost.
That assembly lube stuff will plug the filter pretty fast. And we have tiny filters.
Sorry this happened. Sadly, you aren’t the first.
Ron
However, the rest of the bearings showed minor wear. Nothing like what yours look like.
I ran the stock bottom end for three years and everything looked excellent when I tore it down to add forged rods and pistons.
I changed 3 things. Rods, Pistons and bearings. Clevite H series
The trans and converter stayed in the car.
My mains btw were set to .002”, with the assumption that the alum block grows.
Anyway, my trans has the mod to reduce converter pressure, the converter is a PTC 9.5.
So I’m not so sure about the trans converter theory.
FWIW, new engines I fire them up, check fluids etc, then take it for a 20 minute drive and change the oil. As well as cut the filter.
No boost.
That assembly lube stuff will plug the filter pretty fast. And we have tiny filters.
Sorry this happened. Sadly, you aren’t the first.
Ron
09-20-2018, 05:30 PM
#23
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On another note, I now have a pretty reputable machinist suggesting that the issue might be due to my oil priming method. I poured oil down the pickup tube and turned the motor over by hand while it was still on the stand, and then when I put the motor in the car, I killed ignition, and cranked for 10 seconds or so until oil pressure read 40psi, then started it and it immediately jumped to 55-60psi and stayed there. I know that a lot of people use the pressurized tank method to prime the oil system, but is this absolutely necessary? Did I dry start it?
09-20-2018, 10:20 PM
#24
Wow, first of all sorry this happened. That’s a lot of carnage on a fresh engine, sucks man. It does look like oil starvation or a lot of debris in the oil. One problem likely led to the other. What brand moly assembly grease did you use? I would look up the SDS to try and determine if it’s oil soluble. It should be if it’s engine assembly lube but it’s worth investigating.
I know different folks have different lubes they prefer for assembly but I wonder if too much grease on the Main and rod bearings could have prevented engine oil from flowing once the engine was running. Either that or excessive grease could have clogged the oil filter, causing the oil filter bypass to open and then allow unfiltered grease to clog the oil galleys. I would give the entire oiling system a good inspection before cleaning.
I know different folks have different lubes they prefer for assembly but I wonder if too much grease on the Main and rod bearings could have prevented engine oil from flowing once the engine was running. Either that or excessive grease could have clogged the oil filter, causing the oil filter bypass to open and then allow unfiltered grease to clog the oil galleys. I would give the entire oiling system a good inspection before cleaning.
09-21-2018, 07:39 AM
#25
....
On another note, I now have a pretty reputable machinist suggesting that the issue might be due to my oil priming method. I poured oil down the pickup tube and turned the motor over by hand while it was still on the stand, and then when I put the motor in the car, I killed ignition, and cranked for 10 seconds or so until oil pressure read 40psi, then started it and it immediately jumped to 55-60psi and stayed there. I know that a lot of people use the pressurized tank method to prime the oil system, but is this absolutely necessary? Did I dry start it?
On another note, I now have a pretty reputable machinist suggesting that the issue might be due to my oil priming method. I poured oil down the pickup tube and turned the motor over by hand while it was still on the stand, and then when I put the motor in the car, I killed ignition, and cranked for 10 seconds or so until oil pressure read 40psi, then started it and it immediately jumped to 55-60psi and stayed there. I know that a lot of people use the pressurized tank method to prime the oil system, but is this absolutely necessary? Did I dry start it?
09-21-2018, 08:07 AM
#26
^^^^
I agree, your start up method was just fine, find another “reputable” mechanic. Can’t help you on the bearing problem, the converter is possible, but so could a half dozen other issues be the culprit.
I agree, your start up method was just fine, find another “reputable” mechanic. Can’t help you on the bearing problem, the converter is possible, but so could a half dozen other issues be the culprit.
09-21-2018, 10:40 AM
#27
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https://www.crcindustries.com/produc...oz-SL3331.html
This is the assembly lube I used. I just gave the crank and rods back to my machinist, he is going to turn it 10-10 and see how everything looks he will also line hone the block again, I just really hope I stumble across something that was obviously the problem, because I can't afford to have this happen again, I'll just have to be super careful while assembling everything. And take a little bit of all the advice I've gotten, haha.
This is the assembly lube I used. I just gave the crank and rods back to my machinist, he is going to turn it 10-10 and see how everything looks he will also line hone the block again, I just really hope I stumble across something that was obviously the problem, because I can't afford to have this happen again, I'll just have to be super careful while assembling everything. And take a little bit of all the advice I've gotten, haha.
09-21-2018, 11:14 AM
#28
Make sure to give the block and GOOD cleaning especially the oil passages! I would also consider trying a different assembly lube. If you plan on running the engine soon after assembly, engine oil would be fine. Or at least have a few new oil filters with oil on hand so you can swap them out during the first few hours of initial run time if you start to lose oil pressure like before
09-21-2018, 12:30 PM
#29
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Make sure to give the block and GOOD cleaning especially the oil passages! I would also consider trying a different assembly lube. If you plan on running the engine soon after assembly, engine oil would be fine. Or at least have a few new oil filters with oil on hand so you can swap them out during the first few hours of initial run time if you start to lose oil pressure like before
09-22-2018, 12:14 PM
#30
Are you sure you had the main caps on the right way? The middle three are really the only ones you can put on backwards and they have more damage. The block sides of the bearings have a lot less wear.
09-22-2018, 01:25 PM
#31
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They were definitely on right, I am now doing some more research on moly graphite assembly lube plugging up oil filters, and I used WAY more than necessary, on every contact surface. I'm seriously thinking I used like 5 ounces total (because the 10 oz tube is half empty). I wish I could have tested my oil filter before I cut it apart to look inside.
09-22-2018, 02:58 PM
#32
go sparingly on that black moly lube. just use it under the heads of critical torque spec fasteners. and to hold valve spring locks in place.
use the red sticky permatex lube for almost everything else. motor oil on threads and cylinder walls.
use the red sticky permatex lube for almost everything else. motor oil on threads and cylinder walls.
09-22-2018, 03:24 PM
#33
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That's What I'll definitely do. This is how the oil filter element looks. I am trying to think of a way to test it's flow next to a new one, I'd feel dumb if my overuse of assembly lube actually killed this engine, but it would be super awesome to know what really caused this, and then I could actually learn from it.
09-22-2018, 07:10 PM
#34
That’s really plugged. I take a razor blade tool and cut the top and bottom so I can roll that out like a scroll. Then you will see the metal......
Anyway, if you would have fired it up, idle till fully warmed up, then change oil and filter, may have had better results.
I’d have also built with bigger main clearances being it’s a turbo car.
Anyway, if you would have fired it up, idle till fully warmed up, then change oil and filter, may have had better results.
I’d have also built with bigger main clearances being it’s a turbo car.
09-22-2018, 07:34 PM
#35
They were definitely on right, I am now doing some more research on moly graphite assembly lube plugging up oil filters, and I used WAY more than necessary, on every contact surface. I'm seriously thinking I used like 5 ounces total (because the 10 oz tube is half empty). I wish I could have tested my oil filter before I cut it apart to look inside.
09-22-2018, 08:38 PM
#36
This is not an assembly lube issue. I’ve used every conceivable lubricant available and as soon as the engine fires it becomes irrelevant. This is with out a doubt oil starvation. Not from a bad pump, wrong O ring or improper clearances. Nope
I’m not sure why the block received a line hone on the mains to start with since it’s not mandatory unless there was a prior issue I most certainly would not have it done again as it will only loosen the timing chain. They obviously performed it correctly the first time as you stated the crank spun fine. If you’re bores were too tight or caps on wrong, it simply would not have spun
OIL FILTERS FILTER
Always replace it after initial fifteen or twenty minute break in. Lubes dirt debris and general dust from air will all get caught in the pleats diminishing the volume of oil able to pass through it. Because it’s designed to trap all the crap.
I would bench sand the bearing thrust surfaces to obtain.012”-.014” since turbo application but otherwise polish crank. And clean block and passages. Reuse rings if they don’t appear scored. I would use federal mogul mains and plain King rod bearings. Cast cranks should not use H bearings. Weird but I’ve seen failures from that combo.
Dont overthink this. Your filter did it’s job and simply didn’t get removed soon enough
I’m not sure why the block received a line hone on the mains to start with since it’s not mandatory unless there was a prior issue I most certainly would not have it done again as it will only loosen the timing chain. They obviously performed it correctly the first time as you stated the crank spun fine. If you’re bores were too tight or caps on wrong, it simply would not have spun
OIL FILTERS FILTER
Always replace it after initial fifteen or twenty minute break in. Lubes dirt debris and general dust from air will all get caught in the pleats diminishing the volume of oil able to pass through it. Because it’s designed to trap all the crap.
I would bench sand the bearing thrust surfaces to obtain.012”-.014” since turbo application but otherwise polish crank. And clean block and passages. Reuse rings if they don’t appear scored. I would use federal mogul mains and plain King rod bearings. Cast cranks should not use H bearings. Weird but I’ve seen failures from that combo.
Dont overthink this. Your filter did it’s job and simply didn’t get removed soon enough
09-22-2018, 10:50 PM
#37
This is not an assembly lube issue. I’ve used every conceivable lubricant available and as soon as the engine fires it becomes irrelevant. This is with out a doubt oil starvation. Not from a bad pump, wrong O ring or improper clearances. Nope
I’m not sure why the block received a line hone on the mains to start with since it’s not mandatory unless there was a prior issue I most certainly would not have it done again as it will only loosen the timing chain. They obviously performed it correctly the first time as you stated the crank spun fine. If you’re bores were too tight or caps on wrong, it simply would not have spun
OIL FILTERS FILTER
Always replace it after initial fifteen or twenty minute break in. Lubes dirt debris and general dust from air will all get caught in the pleats diminishing the volume of oil able to pass through it. Because it’s designed to trap all the crap.
I would bench sand the bearing thrust surfaces to obtain.012”-.014” since turbo application but otherwise polish crank. And clean block and passages. Reuse rings if they don’t appear scored. I would use federal mogul mains and plain King rod bearings. Cast cranks should not use H bearings. Weird but I’ve seen failures from that combo.
Dont overthink this. Your filter did it’s job and simply didn’t get removed soon enough
I’m not sure why the block received a line hone on the mains to start with since it’s not mandatory unless there was a prior issue I most certainly would not have it done again as it will only loosen the timing chain. They obviously performed it correctly the first time as you stated the crank spun fine. If you’re bores were too tight or caps on wrong, it simply would not have spun
OIL FILTERS FILTER
Always replace it after initial fifteen or twenty minute break in. Lubes dirt debris and general dust from air will all get caught in the pleats diminishing the volume of oil able to pass through it. Because it’s designed to trap all the crap.
I would bench sand the bearing thrust surfaces to obtain.012”-.014” since turbo application but otherwise polish crank. And clean block and passages. Reuse rings if they don’t appear scored. I would use federal mogul mains and plain King rod bearings. Cast cranks should not use H bearings. Weird but I’ve seen failures from that combo.
Dont overthink this. Your filter did it’s job and simply didn’t get removed soon enough
09-23-2018, 07:47 AM
#40
The filter itself SHOULD have a built in bypass system, most do. But no way is it going to bypass enough oil to keep the engine alive at WOT or heavy loads IMO. The factory bypass is a joke...................