UPDATE POST 58, UPDATE POST 29 randomly got sewing machine
What is the recommended lifter preload on your Morels? What preload did you set them at and with what pushrod length?
Using a pushrod checker and proper technique you really don’t have to worry about compressing the lifters when measuring preload. You mentioned slight L/R rocker lash. I wouldn’t expect this especially with the aftermarket trunnion hardware. This makes me wonder if your pushrods are a bit short. It may not be the cause of the noise you’re hearing, but definitely worth correcting if you want to get the most out of your set-up.
Using a pushrod checker and proper technique you really don’t have to worry about compressing the lifters when measuring preload. You mentioned slight L/R rocker lash. I wouldn’t expect this especially with the aftermarket trunnion hardware. This makes me wonder if your pushrods are a bit short. It may not be the cause of the noise you’re hearing, but definitely worth correcting if you want to get the most out of your set-up.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 711
Likes: 6
From: PNW
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,699
Likes: 168
From: Wilmington, DE
i feel like tho .050-.060 is a little too tight of range for such a basic hyd lifter like the 5315s. Maybe thats the ideal range. I read a lot up on these before buying and found .050-.080 is acceptable. Annyway, i will tell you how i got my length but dont turn this into a thats not the proper way to measure thread. Cause again, really dont think thats my issue. The car made 460 through a t56 9 inch combo, and traps 120-122 so i think its safe to say from a performance aspect everything is set up within a correct range.
the pushrod length checker was a little different each time. After i tried several attempts, i did the way many use but many hate, rocker bolt turn. They all were right around 15/16 to 1 turn from 0 lash to resistance on the bolt which then required a ratched. I also followed the gm way of starting at tdc on cylinder 1 and like torquing 8, then rotating it 1 rotation and doing the others or whateve it was, i have that thread saved, basically the lifters were always on the base circle when i torqued. 1 full turn is roughly .076 so they varied from about .070 to .076 cold. So when hot, everything tights up about .015 right? Since im an ls1, that puts me down to a real nice .055-.060 preload
I have the same issue with my Morel 5315 junk. Went through a similar deal of slightly increasing/decreasing pushrod length within spec in an attempt to shut these things up. Nothing worked. Always clatters at 1400-2000RPM, especially light or closed throttle cruise. Oil pressure at hot idle is 45psi.
I KNEW I should have stuck with the tried and true LS7s, but I took a chance on them because the LS7 lifters (not knockoffs) were comparable in price. Incidentally, the lifters only started to make noise after a few pulls with 7100RPM shift points. They're apparently rated to 6500RPM.
I KNEW I should have stuck with the tried and true LS7s, but I took a chance on them because the LS7 lifters (not knockoffs) were comparable in price. Incidentally, the lifters only started to make noise after a few pulls with 7100RPM shift points. They're apparently rated to 6500RPM.
After assembling so many of these with all the different brands .050 to .060 has worked the best for me and a few other professionals. .075 is too much though especially when talking in margins of 005 increments basically.
Im not saying that is your issue either though but can cause undue load inside the lifter also. It could also cause odd wear on the pushrod itself or lifter.
The thread you saw was likely shsne at thunder saying 1 to 1 1/4 turn for .057ish preload, but having measured it on multiple engines with dial indicator thats actually 3/4 of a turn.
Some people like .030 on 5315s also and have had good luck there with noise and performance. Im not against that if it helps, but you are running on the top edge of having any preload at all.
Im not saying that is your issue either though but can cause undue load inside the lifter also. It could also cause odd wear on the pushrod itself or lifter.
The thread you saw was likely shsne at thunder saying 1 to 1 1/4 turn for .057ish preload, but having measured it on multiple engines with dial indicator thats actually 3/4 of a turn.
Some people like .030 on 5315s also and have had good luck there with noise and performance. Im not against that if it helps, but you are running on the top edge of having any preload at all.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Five Reasons the Camaro Was the Most Pivotal Player in the Pony Car Wars 2.0
Brett Foote Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,699
Likes: 168
From: Wilmington, DE
I'm .075 when cold so when it heats up Im at .060 give or take.
Also I'm pretty sure i read the 5315s have .140 of travel.
To the guy about the 6500 comment, are u sure that's not fake news? The 5315 are basically a factory replacement for all ls gen 3-4. That would include the ls7, which has a red line well above 6500.
Ironically I did 10 track passes, drove an HR home, and seemed like the noise started on next start up a few days later
Also I'm pretty sure i read the 5315s have .140 of travel.
To the guy about the 6500 comment, are u sure that's not fake news? The 5315 are basically a factory replacement for all ls gen 3-4. That would include the ls7, which has a red line well above 6500.
Ironically I did 10 track passes, drove an HR home, and seemed like the noise started on next start up a few days later
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,699
Likes: 168
From: Wilmington, DE
so i pulled the covers, and since im running the wegner heads with titanium intake and exhaust valves, i needed lash caps on all of my valves......well somehow im missing one on one of my intake valves and id say there was about 3/32 or so of lash, as well as the valve tip missing about 1/8 of an inch and being flush with the retainer and locks......i guess on a positive note i found it in time before the head and motor became unsalvageable. the fate of the car will probably be a part out. i bought a complete 427 stroker earlier this year that needs a rebuild, was goona go in this car until i decided i wanted a car that was perfect in paint and the underside, this car isn't bad just has a few spots that im not a fan of. i cant see myself pulling the head again, paying x amount for a new valve, new gasket etc. the rest of the car is fully built and will save some of those parts for the next donor car. what a shame. no HCI car for about 2 years.
the stupid part is as tough as it is to believe, i am dead certain that all the lash caps were there. i mean really i checked everything like 4 or 5 times before the covers went back on. no remnants of cap anywhere tho. idk, unless the cap broke apart somehow, i can only see that i missed putting the cap on......i also cant see a titanium valve lasting 3000 miles without a lash cap tho, especially when everytime the car goes out it gets full throttle a lot, and i did about 35-40 passes on it........
big shout out to ws6store for offering to inspect the rockers for free, just for piece of mind on their end. i assume they will be apart of this 427/429 build.
the stupid part is as tough as it is to believe, i am dead certain that all the lash caps were there. i mean really i checked everything like 4 or 5 times before the covers went back on. no remnants of cap anywhere tho. idk, unless the cap broke apart somehow, i can only see that i missed putting the cap on......i also cant see a titanium valve lasting 3000 miles without a lash cap tho, especially when everytime the car goes out it gets full throttle a lot, and i did about 35-40 passes on it........
big shout out to ws6store for offering to inspect the rockers for free, just for piece of mind on their end. i assume they will be apart of this 427/429 build.
We want all of the products we sell to be top notch, especially our "branded" ones.
Ive seen lash caps pop off from backfires etc before and very seldom over rev, but not during normal use. You did say it did it after track use...so that would explain why.
I like the ti valves with hardened tip just for this reason. Ive seen ls7 and ls9 valves wiped out quickly and ive seen some last a long time with no lash cap so hard to say there, but not 3k+ miles after a noticed issue.
Ive seen lash caps pop off from backfires etc before and very seldom over rev, but not during normal use. You did say it did it after track use...so that would explain why.
I like the ti valves with hardened tip just for this reason. Ive seen ls7 and ls9 valves wiped out quickly and ive seen some last a long time with no lash cap so hard to say there, but not 3k+ miles after a noticed issue.
Well at least you found the likely cause of your headaches. Have you tried draining the oil to see if the cap (pieces) come out? Assuming it took a ride through an oil drain back.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,699
Likes: 168
From: Wilmington, DE
I agree with you here. LOTS of guys running around with lash caps, on both Ti equipped engines and non-Ti, to aid in wipe patterns on rockers. You must have broke one.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,699
Likes: 168
From: Wilmington, DE
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,699
Likes: 168
From: Wilmington, DE
So for the sake of learning here, I'd like to see if we could maybe get a concensus on what probably happened. Will post a pic later, but to sum it up, was dead silent for 3000 miles, basically out of nowhere the noise was obvious, don't really remember much lead up, don't think there was, and my valve is now about 1/8" shorter. Forgot to mention theu were used del west valves from a nascar motor. Since it made it the 3000 I think we can rule out the cap was there at some point.....so
1)cap fell off somewhere, despite never going above the 6700 Rev limiter
2) Manley lash caps broke
3) maybe the del west valve broke off taking the Lash cap with it. Titanium is strong but on the brittle side I believe so who knows
Again I checked all other 15, all rockers clicked the tq wrench at 24, all had the same amount of left to right end play, and all that had a relaxed spring had no lash
1)cap fell off somewhere, despite never going above the 6700 Rev limiter
2) Manley lash caps broke
3) maybe the del west valve broke off taking the Lash cap with it. Titanium is strong but on the brittle side I believe so who knows
Again I checked all other 15, all rockers clicked the tq wrench at 24, all had the same amount of left to right end play, and all that had a relaxed spring had no lash
Ii doesn’t sound like rpm was an issue but I wonder if the was too much spring pressure on the caps...? Do you know what your valve spring open pressure is? Maybe find if there is a max pressure for the caps and compare.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,699
Likes: 168
From: Wilmington, DE
however, everything i ran came straight off of a nascar motor, so id assume they were all compatible. the only exception was the rockers, pushrods, stands, and the manley lashcaps which i bought, but that is what the seller recommended. the springs were beehive PSI 1511 not sure if they were ML or not, but the pressures were high for a beehive, but still came in a little less than the average dual spring.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/MAN-42125-8/
these are what i bought, says they are tough...... lol