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Pounds per square inch (cylinder pressure) and actual square inches (bore size).
1500 PSI cylinder pressure on a 4" bore (12.56 square inches) = 18840 lbs of force pushing up on the cylinder head.
1500 PSI cylinder pressure on a 3.78" bore (11.21 square inches) = 16824 lbs of force pushing up on the cylinder head.
Couple that with the smaller bore gaskets on the 4.8/5.3 allowing for more deck sealing surface, and you have a much better recipe for keeping the heads down.
Thanks man, that answers some questions I've had. Never heard of calculating force that way and always pictured PSI alone. I also found an online calculator for calculating force, thanks again.
You certainly are thorough, but also excessive. Its been proven you don't need a $2,300 crank, $1,400 rods, or $900 pistons or a fancy block for 1500hp. Also depends on what you call reliable, how long do you want the engine to last? A season, a year, two years? Because its going to take quite a few years to catch up to your prices with a simple drop in rod/piston/crank combo for $2000.
As far as fuel system get a Aeromotive 5gpm for $1200 and a set of Bosch 210 injectors for $500 and your covered to well past 1500hp.
Sure you can buy a budget crank and rods like Eagle/Scat/Callies Compstar/K1 and so on but asking them to last at 1500hp is still not an easy task, 1000hp I could see but even then you better know what your doing.
Most people think that to get to 1,500hp you just keep adding boost until you get there. Sure sounds easy enough but that's not how it works, It still takes good parts and the right combination and sneaking up on the tune, Otherwise you'll fall into the it went kaboom crowd just trying to get to that number one time on the dyno lol
I don't have a 1,500hp small block engine for a few reasons, I know how expensive it is to get to that level and how much more you have spend on the rest of the driveline and chassis to be able to use it.
What I mean by reliable is to be able to have the motor last long enough to need freshened up. How long that is depends how long you run it and how hard you run it. In a drag only situation that engine should last a couple seasons with regular maintenance and even then it might not need touched internally. At 1500hp a budget crank may live to see two seasons but I'd bet you a dollar that if you magnaflux it you find cracks and you suddenly have a $800 crankshaft lamp sitting on your desk.
Oh and on that fuel system you still need to figure in regulator/fuel line and filters that will not restrict that pump and be compatible with e85 so add another few hundred to the $1700 you posted.
I've been around long enough to know that cheap and fast do not mix well for long. Looking at the OP's screen name I'm not sure he has the budget to even go the cheap route
Sure you can buy a budget crank and rods like Eagle/Scat/Callies Compstar/K1 and so on but asking them to last at 1500hp is still not an easy task, 1000hp I could see but even then you better know what your doing.
Most people think that to get to 1,500hp you just keep adding boost until you get there. Sure sounds easy enough but that's not how it works, It still takes good parts and the right combination and sneaking up on the tune, Otherwise you'll fall into the it went kaboom crowd just trying to get to that number one time on the dyno lol
I don't have a 1,500hp small block engine for a few reasons, I know how expensive it is to get to that level and how much more you have spend on the rest of the driveline and chassis to be able to use it.
What I mean by reliable is to be able to have the motor last long enough to need freshened up. How long that is depends how long you run it and how hard you run it. In a drag only situation that engine should last a couple seasons with regular maintenance and even then it might not need touched internally. At 1500hp a budget crank may live to see two seasons but I'd bet you a dollar that if you magnaflux it you find cracks and you suddenly have a $800 crankshaft lamp sitting on your desk.
Oh and on that fuel system you still need to figure in regulator/fuel line and filters that will not restrict that pump and be compatible with e85 so add another few hundred to the $1700 you posted.
I've been around long enough to know that cheap and fast do not mix well for long. Looking at the OP's screen name I'm not sure he has the budget to even go the cheap route
The guy is a waste of time
he builds only to rebuild it, logic means nothing to him
That virgin bore 5.3 is thin. That must of been a gen 3 block.
Recipe for stock block 1500 horse:
Gen 4 5.3 block
stud the mains
stud the heads
o ring the heads
forged rods
Forged pistons
3/4 block fill
Full race prep machine block and heads
Front motor plate
Rear/mid plate
35 pounds of boost (haha)
I think that would get you fairly close. The guys with the stock bottom end world records use l33 blocks that are full of concrete in the heads and water jackets but they use only methanol. So these block can take it it just needs a lot of time put in it.
The guy is a waste of time
he builds only to rebuild it, logic means nothing to him
Certainly not a waste to have fun on a budget. If someone comes along that wants to spend $25k to go 8's rather than $2,500 we'll help them out just the same. I've come across two groups of people while modifying cars, those that spend a lot of money building a pristine example with the best of everything but then are scared to really beat on it and those that build on the cheap constantly beating the ever living snot out of it. Usually its the latter that end up having a lot more fun even if it means spending some time in the garage between thrashing sessions.
According to you we would never be able to race our cars because we didn't spend $15k+ on the engine sitting between the fenders or $15k on a drivetrain to properly hold the power. To each their own, but without a doubt I can tell you we have a heck of a lot of fun building **** on the cheap that beats people that spent a heck of a lot more money! I know that's not logical to you but I also don't care what you think.
Sure you can buy a budget crank and rods like Eagle/Scat/Callies Compstar/K1 and so on but asking them to last at 1500hp is still not an easy task, 1000hp I could see but even then you better know what your doing.
Most people think that to get to 1,500hp you just keep adding boost until you get there. Sure sounds easy enough but that's not how it works, It still takes good parts and the right combination and sneaking up on the tune, Otherwise you'll fall into the it went kaboom crowd just trying to get to that number one time on the dyno lol
I don't have a 1,500hp small block engine for a few reasons, I know how expensive it is to get to that level and how much more you have spend on the rest of the driveline and chassis to be able to use it.
What I mean by reliable is to be able to have the motor last long enough to need freshened up. How long that is depends how long you run it and how hard you run it. In a drag only situation that engine should last a couple seasons with regular maintenance and even then it might not need touched internally. At 1500hp a budget crank may live to see two seasons but I'd bet you a dollar that if you magnaflux it you find cracks and you suddenly have a $800 crankshaft lamp sitting on your desk.
Oh and on that fuel system you still need to figure in regulator/fuel line and filters that will not restrict that pump and be compatible with e85 so add another few hundred to the $1700 you posted.
I've been around long enough to know that cheap and fast do not mix well for long. Looking at the OP's screen name I'm not sure he has the budget to even go the cheap route
So you haven't actually made over 1000hp have you? It's not hard even with stock parts, my Gen 4 internals lasted over a year above that power level. Compstar, K1, Molnar, etc rods laugh at 1000hp, we have multiple cars that make well over 1000whp on those parts for years. They certainty aren't race cars, they are street cars that get put on the limiter every time they are fired up. I don't bother with dyno's either, these are cars that get used and abused. Dynos are for comparing dicks on the internet, I'd rather back it up with MPH over and over again.
I'm liking this little debate whether the OP is around or not I found some of it interesting. I've noticed one thing on this forum lately...you have the guys that swear by the junk yard LS sloppy builds and the complete opposite where guys think only high end components with everything blueprinted and checked and double checked meticulously. Ask any reputable engine builder and they put way lower horse power limitations on their forged setups then this forum puts on junk yard builds. Why? There seems to be no middle ground where hey I don't want a junk yard build, but I don't want a $15,000 engine either. If people make 1000 rwhp with untouched 243's why do I need $3000 heads? Some think more cubic inches with better heads to run lower boost to make the same power is the way to go. Others think 5.3 with 243's and boost it to the moon because it's stronger. The debate is interesting and I like hearing from guys that actually build motors as to their reasoning for doing things the way they do. I believe there is more than one right way to do things because not all of our goals are the same. Not everyone can or wants to do a junk yard build and then constantly be working on it because it simply isn't as reliable at 1000 rwhp as the internet leads you to believe.
So you haven't actually made over 1000hp have you? It's not hard even with stock parts, my Gen 4 internals lasted over a year above that power level. Compstar, K1, Molnar, etc rods laugh at 1000hp, we have multiple cars that make well over 1000whp on those parts for years. They certainty aren't race cars, they are street cars that get put on the limiter every time they are fired up. I don't bother with dyno's either, these are cars that get used and abused. Dynos are for comparing dicks on the internet, I'd rather back it up with MPH over and over again.
Like I said earlier I have no need to make over a 1,000hp, In my case if I wanted to it's just a matter of turning up the boost, All the parts I have will support it easy enough.
What I do find funny is you're talking like making 1,000hp is easy and 1,500hp isn't hard either.
There is a huge difference in making 1,000hp and 1,500 lol, It's a hell of a lot harder to get 50% more power and have it live let alone be reliable at that power level.
Lets see that 1,500hp budget crankshaft/rods pass inspection when it's ready to be rebuilt that if it doesn't window the block before that time comes. Hell I'd even venture to say the stock block wouldn't make it very long at 1,500hp.
Let's hear what your 1,000hp engine combination is in your car and what size tire you use to get all that power hooked on the street.
I'm liking this little debate whether the OP is around or not I found some of it interesting. I've noticed one thing on this forum lately...you have the guys that swear by the junk yard LS sloppy builds and the complete opposite where guys think only high end components with everything blueprinted and checked and double checked meticulously. Ask any reputable engine builder and they put way lower horse power limitations on their forged setups then this forum puts on junk yard builds. Why? There seems to be no middle ground where hey I don't want a junk yard build, but I don't want a $15,000 engine either. If people make 1000 rwhp with untouched 243's why do I need $3000 heads? Some think more cubic inches with better heads to run lower boost to make the same power is the way to go. Others think 5.3 with 243's and boost it to the moon because it's stronger. The debate is interesting and I like hearing from guys that actually build motors as to their reasoning for doing things the way they do. I believe there is more than one right way to do things because not all of our goals are the same. Not everyone can or wants to do a junk yard build and then constantly be working on it because it simply isn't as reliable at 1000 rwhp as the internet leads you to believe.
If the OP was just wanting to make a 1,000hp with stock block and heads I would agree that it's possible but making it live is another story but he wants to make 1500 and I just don't see that happening easily even with budget parts.
I'm dirt track type of person myself and they are endurance engines that have to live at high rpm lap after lap not like drag cars that see redline for brief periods as they go down the track a few times a weekend and certainly not like street cars that don't stress parts because they are traction limited.
You're just down the street from Knoxville raceway, The 410 class engines are as badass as they come yet only make around 900hp. They get about 6-8 nights before needing freshened up but in those 6-8 nights they see more high rpm use than most drag cars see in a few seasons.
I have a budget stockish supercharged daily driver that I can push it to the limit and here and there and then I have my other engine that I see more as hobby engine, Not the best parts available but good parts that are part of a well thought out combination that's built to make honest power without being a hand grenade. One that If I had the space I could run it near redline for more than a few seconds at a time, Think flying mile type engine.
Both engines have there place and I'm not one to knock either one, I have them both and also not afraid to push stock parts to the breaking point.
Here is a bone stock 5.3 that I put in my son in-laws Nova, It didn't last long so the same setup is going on a stock 6.0 this winter. You may even see the car around because he lives in Knoxville.
Definitely an interesting thread ! Keep up the good work please.
Definitely, want my own stuff built once and reliable to enjoy with little shop/down time and tinkering. Keeping near 100,000 mile durability is one of my goals as much as hp. We all have our niche. I still like reading about the wild 1,500 hp stock bottom end builds
If the OP was just wanting to make a 1,000hp with stock block and heads I would agree that it's possible but making it live is another story but he wants to make 1500 and I just don't see that happening easily even with budget parts.
I'm dirt track type of person myself and they are endurance engines that have to live at high rpm lap after lap not like drag cars that see redline for brief periods as they go down the track a few times a weekend and certainly not like street cars that don't stress parts because they are traction limited.
You're just down the street from Knoxville raceway, The 410 class engines are as badass as they come yet only make around 900hp. They get about 6-8 nights before needing freshened up but in those 6-8 nights they see more high rpm use than most drag cars see in a few seasons.
I have a budget stockish supercharged daily driver that I can push it to the limit and here and there and then I have my other engine that I see more as hobby engine, Not the best parts available but good parts that are part of a well thought out combination that's built to make honest power without being a hand grenade. One that If I had the space I could run it near redline for more than a few seconds at a time, Think flying mile type engine.
Both engines have there place and I'm not one to knock either one, I have them both and also not afraid to push stock parts to the breaking point.
Here is a bone stock 5.3 that I put in my son in-laws Nova, It didn't last long so the same setup is going on a stock 6.0 this winter. You may even see the car around because he lives in Knoxville.
I haven't been to Knoxville in several years, but I'm well aware. I used to go there weekly all through my childhood as well as Eddyville drag races. Back then I didn't get into the drags as much as dirt track because it was all bracket racing and as a kid that just didn't make sense. Now there is a pretty good no prep scene at Eddyville and I get up at 3 am for work so Knoxville races are hard for me to make. Sprint car motors, even the budget ones cost more than I have in my whole car so that's definitely a different ball game. Building a high horsepower car for a legitimate daily capable car is a different ball game as well creating it's own challenges. I've honestly never built a complete motor myself starting from just a block, but have just been around racing a long time as well as done a lot of my own work and tuning. I know a lot of things in theory and can speak the language to communicate what I want with engine builders. I think there are a lot of guys like me that don't actually build motors, but give advice how to do it on this forum...that is a problem in my opinion. I'm running my SBE ls1 up to 12 psi this spring and maybe keep adding a pound or so at a time until it breaks. Hopefully I can get through next year and build a motor the following winter, but I've decided to buy a budget forged short block and not try a junk yard motor. I want either a forged 347 iron or 370 iron and make around 800 rwhp out of the D1x. That's enough for me, but I want a reliable 800 rwhp.
Like I said earlier I have no need to make over a 1,000hp, In my case if I wanted to it's just a matter of turning up the boost, All the parts I have will support it easy enough.
What I do find funny is you're talking like making 1,000hp is easy and 1,500hp isn't hard either.
There is a huge difference in making 1,000hp and 1,500 lol, It's a hell of a lot harder to get 50% more power and have it live let alone be reliable at that power level.
Lets see that 1,500hp budget crankshaft/rods pass inspection when it's ready to be rebuilt that if it doesn't window the block before that time comes. Hell I'd even venture to say the stock block wouldn't make it very long at 1,500hp.
Let's hear what your 1,000hp engine combination is in your car and what size tire you use to get all that power hooked on the street.
Because it is easy, you just have to live a little! Give me a $600 shipped intake to oilpan 5.3L, a T6 88mm, some Bosch 210 injectors and decent fuel pump, LS9 gaskets, ARP bolts, BTR springs and a cam and I'll hand you back 1000+whp. Worst case it will cost you $500 or so a year in maintenance if you pop a block, but to date I have not had one blow up. They pinch a gasket or bend a rod here and there but no catastrophic disasters.
My SBE stock head aluminum 6.0 is still going strong and its seen abuse from an overspun Maggie, overspun procharger, and twin turbos and its going on 10 years old. Also did the "shitty" iron 6.0 its seen a few years from an overspun F1A procharger without an issue.
2005 5.3 with a cam and valve springs took abuse from an 88mm for over a year, thing saw 7500RPM and 25+ PSI every time it started and ran mid 9's in a 4000lb car. Finally after a year and a half it bent a rod, still ran fine just happen to see it on winter tear down. Slap some ebay gen 4 rods in it and lives another day!
We dyno'd an iron 5.3L at 1100hp and it trapped 154 MPH at that power, then turned it up at the track and trapped 164 MPH, you think that little 5.3L wasn't making some steam? Still had stock 317 heads on it, that engine is a few years old and still going strong and that thing sees at least 7500RPM every time its started.
Did a stock crank, chinese rod, wiseco piston iron 5.3 and it ran 8's with stock heads with some Chinese bolts holding them down, has lived happily for 2+ years just gave it some fresh bearings each winter mainly because I like spinning it to the moon.
I did an aluminum 5.3L with a billet 88mm, ran just as hard as the 8 sec combo above with no issues.
As far as tires on most things we run a 28" Hoosier slick or some cars work well on the 275 Mickey bracket pro. My car runs 345's out back, still turns them over a bit but it gets going pretty good.
12-05-2018, 04:24 PM
