Iron block HP limit with forged internals? 1500+ HP truck
12-08-2018, 12:25 AM
#81
lol I've driven every type of power adder there is. Turbos absolutely draw a crowd I had 30+ people in front of my car at the last show it was at and it took home an award and its nowhere near show car condition. Drove it across 4 states to get to the show as well, hows your blower do cruising at 90mph?
I take it you never used a two step. Funny part is MY twin turbos absolutely make huge tq at low rpm, but they carry on and make 1000+ at 5000 rpm. Hows your blower do at 7500 RPM? Oh wait you care too much about your stock block to spin it that high or make 1000+hp.
Funny you think turbos are some kind of maintenance nightmare. Turbos on my car have been spinning since 2007, how old is that blower? Ive put 100k+ miles on Garrett turbos without issue, I know that blower belt wont last that long. Ive put a lot of miles on chinese turbos as well without issue and Ive sold them to others that keep racking up the miles.
Could care less who I’m talking to, unless you’ve actually done something then your just talking out your ***. I build my own cars and tune my own cars. I dont need to read **** on the internet and claim its not possible.
Just for ***** and giggles, The blower is around 60 years old and still running most of it's original parts, The only thing that's not original is the snout (it's from the 70's) and it got new bearings just this year because the 60 year old bearings didn't want to come off the rotors without destroying them. The only work done was to close up the tolerances for alcohol use.
I've built frame off cars/trucks. Build my own engines and tune my own also. The machine work is left to the machinist well….because I'm not a machinist lol.
Blower belts last for years, I don't even own a spare...don't need to and considering roots blowers came off over the road trucks and buses they are plenty dependable even when running at sustained rpm.
Raced dirt cars for a few years and wrenched on them helped on sprint cars ( can't afford 60k engines myself)
I've tuned Methanol/Ethanol/110 and plain old gas. Mechanical injection/carb/multiple carb intakes/EFI 16 injector setups and a few others and all were on my cars/trucks/race cars. Like I said I'm not new to the game.
I've used turbos and they have their place but they in no way shape or form build boost like a positive displacement supercharger does and you sure as hell don't need a two step lol. While you're fiddling with your two step I'd be sitting and waiting for you to build boost. All I need is a transbrake and a small stall. Oh and the blower is still making boost at 7500 I'm not sure why you would think otherwise?
Yes It's been to 7500+ a few times but that's the beauty of a roots blow...the engine doesn't need to be spun to make power.
OH and If you think rpms are going to hurt a stock block when properly balanced and tuned then you better rethink your strategy.
My last build is my S10 frame off/ frame narrowed/ LSA supercharged 6.0 with TR6060 trans, I have a build thread on here if you want to go critique it.
PS still waiting to see all the 1500+ hp stock block unicorns you say exist!
12-08-2018, 12:56 AM
#82
Again I'm not sure why you think a roots blower can't actually be driven...that's what they were designed for. That blower is basically the same design as the LSA and other after market positive displacement superchargers, the all have spinning rotors in a housing driven off a snout connected to the crankshaft by belt and pulley setup.
With the rear gears in it now (3.42) it'll cruise at 70mph an 1,450 rpms and 90mph is somewhere around 1,800 but only I'm guessing because I've only ran it to 90mph when shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear. I need my drivers license to make a living so believe it or not I don't street race and don't cruise along at 90mph. Some runs to 3rd gear and 130+ on a secluded road might have happened on occasion.
12-08-2018, 08:03 AM
#83
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
Almost forgot, When I say draws a crowd, I'm not talking about car shows that's so easy a freakin ricer honda with a fart can can do that, I'm talking about drawing a crowd where there wasn't one before.... I mean at the gas station/park or just about anywhere you stop for more than a few minutes, The only thing that draws more people is the sprint car, People literally follow me around trying to get pictures of it.
Again I'm not sure why you think a roots blower can't actually be driven...that's what they were designed for. That blower is basically the same design as the LSA and other after market positive displacement superchargers, the all have spinning rotors in a housing driven off a snout connected to the crankshaft by belt and pulley setup.
With the rear gears in it now (3.42) it'll cruise at 70mph an 1,450 rpms and 90mph is somewhere around 1,800 but only I'm guessing because I've only ran it to 90mph when shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear. I need my drivers license to make a living so believe it or not I don't street race and don't cruise along at 90mph. Some runs to 3rd gear and 130+ on a secluded road might have happened on occasion.
Again I'm not sure why you think a roots blower can't actually be driven...that's what they were designed for. That blower is basically the same design as the LSA and other after market positive displacement superchargers, the all have spinning rotors in a housing driven off a snout connected to the crankshaft by belt and pulley setup.
With the rear gears in it now (3.42) it'll cruise at 70mph an 1,450 rpms and 90mph is somewhere around 1,800 but only I'm guessing because I've only ran it to 90mph when shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear. I need my drivers license to make a living so believe it or not I don't street race and don't cruise along at 90mph. Some runs to 3rd gear and 130+ on a secluded road might have happened on occasion.
12-08-2018, 12:13 PM
#86
Indiana Muscle Car speed shop had a ~1350 to1400+ whp stock block LS Firebird at LSFEST in 2016. Talked to them a good bit. Definitely a sweet ride! They had just installed the new ProCharger set up when I saw the car. Forged bottom end and stock block from what I remember.
Indiana Muscle Car speed shop's Turbo LS Firebird in 2016, saw the car run low 8's at LSFest with new set up as it was getting tweaked and sorted out.
12-08-2018, 02:00 PM
#87
Which holley system? I'm not up on the aftermarket systems much. My father in law has a 51 chevy coupe with a small block and a BDS 6-71. He's been considering going LS and i'll show him your setup, it looks great and I bet he will dig it.
Have any pics of the 51 truck?
Have any pics of the 51 truck?
Last edited by 00pooterSS; 12-08-2018 at 02:19 PM.
12-08-2018, 02:20 PM
#88
Heads are the issue more than anything. 1000rwhp is sort of the limit of a 4-bolt cylinder head. Anything above that and you need 6-bolt heads and probably 1/2" head studs. Of course, people have pushed 6L blocks to 1400rwhp with essentially stock components. Those are not going to last any amount of time. If you want the setup to last more than a few passes at the track or on the dyno, I'd definitely use the following guidelines for GM blocks:
-LS1 good to about 800rwhp without any real issue
-LS6 good for a little more 900
-LS3 good to 1000
-LM7 1000+
-L33 1000+
-LS2 1000+
-LQ4/LQ9 1100+
And depending on if you fill them or do other things will depend on how much further they can go. Also, boring out an L33 to 3.9" may weaken it a bit vs the stock bore.
I'd feel good with an LS2/L33 block for aluminum at 1000 and any of the iron blocks there. Beyond that, and I'd want a dedicated 6-bolt head setup with either the Dart SHP or LSX block.
-LS1 good to about 800rwhp without any real issue
-LS6 good for a little more 900
-LS3 good to 1000
-LM7 1000+
-L33 1000+
-LS2 1000+
-LQ4/LQ9 1100+
And depending on if you fill them or do other things will depend on how much further they can go. Also, boring out an L33 to 3.9" may weaken it a bit vs the stock bore.
I'd feel good with an LS2/L33 block for aluminum at 1000 and any of the iron blocks there. Beyond that, and I'd want a dedicated 6-bolt head setup with either the Dart SHP or LSX block.
12-08-2018, 04:06 PM
#89
Which holley system? I'm not up on the aftermarket systems much. My father in law has a 51 chevy coupe with a small block and a BDS 6-71. He's been considering going LS and i'll show him your setup, it looks great and I bet he will dig it.
Have any pics of the 51 truck?
Have any pics of the 51 truck?
If he's serious about doing the swap tell him to look at the Holley Terminator line It comes in kit form that will save some money over buy individual pieces.
12-10-2018, 08:27 AM
#91
That BDS will make more boost than you need on almost any small block and more than most big blocks need. It makes big boost number through CNC ported AFR heads so stock heads being the restriction it would make more boost at 1:1 than you would ever be able to use. It made 843hp with e85 on just 9lbs and 900+ on very light timing at 15lbs. Again that's 10% under and a simple swap of the pulleys would put boost in the 25lb range at just 10% over. If you have a good block you can spin the blower faster yet and make over 30lbs so yeah I would say it's more capable than the little 76mm turbo lol
Hell it doesn't take a 1,000hp to run 8's in the right car if it's a light weight and hooks well. A thousand will put you into the mid 7's if you drop it in a rail. My truck weighs in at 2,625 and according to the calculators 800hp should put it in the 8's , So a few rounds to dial it in it should be able to run the numbers.
Hell my old soon to be street legal sprint car weighs right at 1700lbs with a powerglide, It should be able to run mid 8's with NA 600hp old school SBC
Recipe? I saw a recipe but you didn't say that it's what you're running and no driveline info?
What excuses? You keep saying a 1,000hp this and that but that wasn't what the OP wanted to know, He asked about an iron block holding 1,500+ HP and the answer is...…….Still NO! Show me a 1,500+hp stock block with actual water in it that last more than a few runs and I'll be shocked. Sure it's been done but none lived at that level for more than a few passes aka hand grenade. You say I'm making excuses and you just keep side stepping the topic at hand... I wonder why that is lol
Hell it doesn't take a 1,000hp to run 8's in the right car if it's a light weight and hooks well. A thousand will put you into the mid 7's if you drop it in a rail. My truck weighs in at 2,625 and according to the calculators 800hp should put it in the 8's , So a few rounds to dial it in it should be able to run the numbers.
Hell my old soon to be street legal sprint car weighs right at 1700lbs with a powerglide, It should be able to run mid 8's with NA 600hp old school SBC
Recipe? I saw a recipe but you didn't say that it's what you're running and no driveline info?
What excuses? You keep saying a 1,000hp this and that but that wasn't what the OP wanted to know, He asked about an iron block holding 1,500+ HP and the answer is...…….Still NO! Show me a 1,500+hp stock block with actual water in it that last more than a few runs and I'll be shocked. Sure it's been done but none lived at that level for more than a few passes aka hand grenade. You say I'm making excuses and you just keep side stepping the topic at hand... I wonder why that is lol
Your too funny...all the **** you typed and not one word about the original topic???
Just for ***** and giggles, The blower is around 60 years old and still running most of it's original parts, The only thing that's not original is the snout (it's from the 70's) and it got new bearings just this year because the 60 year old bearings didn't want to come off the rotors without destroying them. The only work done was to close up the tolerances for alcohol use.
I've built frame off cars/trucks. Build my own engines and tune my own also. The machine work is left to the machinist well….because I'm not a machinist lol.
Blower belts last for years, I don't even own a spare...don't need to and considering roots blowers came off over the road trucks and buses they are plenty dependable even when running at sustained rpm.
Raced dirt cars for a few years and wrenched on them helped on sprint cars ( can't afford 60k engines myself)
I've tuned Methanol/Ethanol/110 and plain old gas. Mechanical injection/carb/multiple carb intakes/EFI 16 injector setups and a few others and all were on my cars/trucks/race cars. Like I said I'm not new to the game.
I've used turbos and they have their place but they in no way shape or form build boost like a positive displacement supercharger does and you sure as hell don't need a two step lol. While you're fiddling with your two step I'd be sitting and waiting for you to build boost. All I need is a transbrake and a small stall. Oh and the blower is still making boost at 7500 I'm not sure why you would think otherwise?
Yes It's been to 7500+ a few times but that's the beauty of a roots blow...the engine doesn't need to be spun to make power.
OH and If you think rpms are going to hurt a stock block when properly balanced and tuned then you better rethink your strategy.
My last build is my S10 frame off/ frame narrowed/ LSA supercharged 6.0 with TR6060 trans, I have a build thread on here if you want to go critique it.
PS still waiting to see all the 1500+ hp stock block unicorns you say exist!
Just for ***** and giggles, The blower is around 60 years old and still running most of it's original parts, The only thing that's not original is the snout (it's from the 70's) and it got new bearings just this year because the 60 year old bearings didn't want to come off the rotors without destroying them. The only work done was to close up the tolerances for alcohol use.
I've built frame off cars/trucks. Build my own engines and tune my own also. The machine work is left to the machinist well….because I'm not a machinist lol.
Blower belts last for years, I don't even own a spare...don't need to and considering roots blowers came off over the road trucks and buses they are plenty dependable even when running at sustained rpm.
Raced dirt cars for a few years and wrenched on them helped on sprint cars ( can't afford 60k engines myself)
I've tuned Methanol/Ethanol/110 and plain old gas. Mechanical injection/carb/multiple carb intakes/EFI 16 injector setups and a few others and all were on my cars/trucks/race cars. Like I said I'm not new to the game.
I've used turbos and they have their place but they in no way shape or form build boost like a positive displacement supercharger does and you sure as hell don't need a two step lol. While you're fiddling with your two step I'd be sitting and waiting for you to build boost. All I need is a transbrake and a small stall. Oh and the blower is still making boost at 7500 I'm not sure why you would think otherwise?
Yes It's been to 7500+ a few times but that's the beauty of a roots blow...the engine doesn't need to be spun to make power.
OH and If you think rpms are going to hurt a stock block when properly balanced and tuned then you better rethink your strategy.
My last build is my S10 frame off/ frame narrowed/ LSA supercharged 6.0 with TR6060 trans, I have a build thread on here if you want to go critique it.
PS still waiting to see all the 1500+ hp stock block unicorns you say exist!
Almost forgot, When I say draws a crowd, I'm not talking about car shows that's so easy a freakin ricer honda with a fart can can do that, I'm talking about drawing a crowd where there wasn't one before.... I mean at the gas station/park or just about anywhere you stop for more than a few minutes, The only thing that draws more people is the sprint car, People literally follow me around trying to get pictures of it.
Again I'm not sure why you think a roots blower can't actually be driven...that's what they were designed for. That blower is basically the same design as the LSA and other after market positive displacement superchargers, the all have spinning rotors in a housing driven off a snout connected to the crankshaft by belt and pulley setup.
With the rear gears in it now (3.42) it'll cruise at 70mph an 1,450 rpms and 90mph is somewhere around 1,800 but only I'm guessing because I've only ran it to 90mph when shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear. I need my drivers license to make a living so believe it or not I don't street race and don't cruise along at 90mph. Some runs to 3rd gear and 130+ on a secluded road might have happened on occasion.
Again I'm not sure why you think a roots blower can't actually be driven...that's what they were designed for. That blower is basically the same design as the LSA and other after market positive displacement superchargers, the all have spinning rotors in a housing driven off a snout connected to the crankshaft by belt and pulley setup.
With the rear gears in it now (3.42) it'll cruise at 70mph an 1,450 rpms and 90mph is somewhere around 1,800 but only I'm guessing because I've only ran it to 90mph when shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear. I need my drivers license to make a living so believe it or not I don't street race and don't cruise along at 90mph. Some runs to 3rd gear and 130+ on a secluded road might have happened on occasion.
Show me a billet 88mm Borg for $500!
12-10-2018, 11:06 AM
#92
TECH Senior Member
Slow Sedan AND LLLosingit - How about knocking off the pissing contest before the mods do it for you? Permanently.
Last edited by G Atsma; 12-10-2018 at 11:23 AM.
12-10-2018, 11:21 AM
#94
TECH Senior Member
12-10-2018, 12:23 PM
#96
TECH Senior Member
Those who continuously talk **** find themselves banned if it persists. See where 8.Lug and KingTalon went....
12-10-2018, 12:37 PM
#98
Yeah, but SS actually provides real world info with video proof, not hypothetical BS like KT or just crap like 8L did. Everyone originally said the LS1 was only good to 400hp, then 500, then 600, etc. etc. Truck motors only made low end torque and can't spool a turbo or you'll split the block. The envelope is always being pushed to find real limits. Unless someone is willing to do the math that something is mathematically impossible (I've done it on here before), simply stating that you can't make XYZ power or run X.X ET is foolish.
12-10-2018, 12:41 PM
#99
No idea who those guys are or where they went. I got banned before for speaking my mind because some over zealous moderator thought I was full of ****, then the MD Attorney General filed charges on them and found them guilty of ripping people off. Guess I knew what I was talking about then. Same as now, some guy that thinks he knows everything yet hasn't done anything is trying to tell me what I have and haven't done. Saying turbos are worthless and you need to spend a bunch of money to make power isn't what hot rodding is all about. Making the most power and spending the least money impresses me a lot more then some credit card warrior. Sure the more expensive engine may more reliable but if you don't mind kicking back cracking a beer and getting your hands dirty who cares?
12-10-2018, 12:52 PM
#100
Ya you can get a cast 76 borg pretty cheap and they work well, but depending on the power level the billet Chinese turbos actually make more power. Especially now that they have copied the larger S400 hotside, you can get 103mm turbines now in fairly cheap turbos which is the choke point on most setups.
Agree, I don't talk about it unless I've done it. People often think you're lying or just full of **** when you say its just a 5.3L or we run 30+ PSI. I'm like well here's the data you tell me what it says. Multiple vendors have been proven wrong in our testing, **** happens when you go full send!
Yeah, but SS actually provides real world info with video proof, not hypothetical BS like KT or just crap like 8L did. Everyone originally said the LS1 was only good to 400hp, then 500, then 600, etc. etc. Truck motors only made low end torque and can't spool a turbo or you'll split the block. The envelope is always being pushed to find real limits. Unless someone is willing to do the math that something is mathematically impossible (I've done it on here before), simply stating that you can't make XYZ power or run X.X ET is foolish.