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Good quality Rotating Assembly kit

 
Old 01-06-2019, 08:43 PM
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^^^^^^^ if u dont take his advice and it bites u in the *** he should get to kick u in the nuts
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Old 01-07-2019, 04:51 AM
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What is your actual power goal with the centrifugal supercharger? Your power goals and fuel you plan to use are pretty critical in my opinion as far as planning the engine build. If you are planning a lot of boost I actually don't like or think the "stroker" crank is needed. The F1a and bigger prochargers have a reputation of being hard on crank snouts, but the D1x and smaller don't have this problem. The only cranks I've seen damaged by the large blowers have been oem and callies compstar. If your goal is under 800 rwhp, I'd just go with a forged 347 and a D1x procharger with a stock crank. If you want more than that I'd also stick with the 347, but go with an F1a-94 blower with a high quality crank still with stock stroke.

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Old 01-07-2019, 08:42 AM
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Adding to what BCNUL8R said, if big boost is the long term plan, it might be worth considering replacing the LS1 block with one of the newer LS blocks that has stronger cylinder liners instead of doing the stroker crank.

No flames here, it all really depends on what the OP wants.
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 99 Black Bird T/A View Post
Adding to what BCNUL8R said, if big boost is the long term plan, it might be worth considering replacing the LS1 block with one of the newer LS blocks that has stronger cylinder liners instead of doing the stroker crank.

No flames here, it all really depends on what the OP wants.
I agree thatís why I feel we need a more defined goal here. Iím not an engine builder, but I do my own tuning and have experience with a lot of different combinations. Iíve had a 11.5 to 1 compression 408 and that was more fun on the street than my current 346 at 8 psi. The centri is peaky power at low boost and small cubic inches. Now at 12 psi it really closed the gap on the fun side on that 408. That 4 psi made a huge difference in the 3 to 5000 rpm range where it was lacking before.

Basically if the power goal can be met naturally aspirated with cubic inches, great heads, etc that would be my preference. If the power goal canít be met NA and maintain streetability then donít worry about cubic inches and just run more boost to achieve the goal. Thatís my opinion and there are a ton of combinations available which makes it fun.
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:50 PM
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TSP also has a 395 CID stroker kit. With the 11cc dished pistons, it will give you about a 10.35:1 compression ratio. That is assuming stock heads and a head gasket .045" thick.

I was just about to ask a similar question. I'm glad I saw this thread. I would really like a Pro-charger, but I'm concerned about my stock pistons. It seems like 600 whp is about the limit on the stock pistons. A set of forged pistons would be sweet, but I haven't found any in the stock bore. They are all 3.903-.3.905".
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Utinator View Post
TSP also has a 395 CID stroker kit. With the 11cc dished pistons, it will give you about a 10.35:1 compression ratio. That is assuming stock heads and a head gasket .045" thick.

I was just about to ask a similar question. I'm glad I saw this thread. I would really like a Pro-charger, but I'm concerned about my stock pistons. It seems like 600 whp is about the limit on the stock pistons. A set of forged pistons would be sweet, but I haven't found any in the stock bore. They are all 3.903-.3.905".
No way is 600hp the limit on stock pistons lol....
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Utinator View Post
TSP also has a 395 CID stroker kit. With the 11cc dished pistons, it will give you about a 10.35:1 compression ratio. That is assuming stock heads and a head gasket .045" thick.

I was just about to ask a similar question. I'm glad I saw this thread. I would really like a Pro-charger, but I'm concerned about my stock pistons. It seems like 600 whp is about the limit on the stock pistons. A set of forged pistons would be sweet, but I haven't found any in the stock bore. They are all 3.903-.3.905".
Zero need for that long of stroke in a procharged ls1. You could accomplish more by going with a 1/4Ē smaller diameter pulley on the blower. Detonation is the limit of the pistons not a specific power level. E85 or meth, correct plugs, and a good tune go a long way in a boosted setup.
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Old 01-08-2019, 09:58 AM
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The stock pistons are pretty good in my opinion. They don't survive bad tuning and detonation with boost for long.

Back in 2002-2003 had a friend making ~680 wheel hp in his procharged 02 SS Camaro. The tuning software wasn't as good then. The stock pistons held up fine. Eventually the oil control rings wore out and started giving puffs of blue smoke. Still ran good, in the low 10's, just needed re-ringed.
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by 99 Black Bird T/A View Post
The stock pistons are pretty good in my opinion. They don't survive bad tuning and detonation with boost for long.

Back in 2002-2003 had a friend making ~680 wheel hp in his procharged 02 SS Camaro. The tuning software wasn't as good then. The stock pistons held up fine. Eventually the oil control rings wore out and started giving puffs of blue smoke. Still ran good, in the low 10's, just needed re-ringed.
680 rwhp was huge for a sbe ls back then. Enough people have laid the groundwork for tuning procharged ls engines now itís not as big of a deal as it was back then.
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:43 AM
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I have an iron 408. I used the Chinesium Lunati crank, Compstar rods, Wiseco slugs. No prob balancing, does not burn oil, no poston rock, and the crank measured really consistant on everyrhing. So im pretty sure if you go with any of the Callies, K1, Lunati, etc... stuff you shouldnt have any issues!
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:51 AM
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Summit and Dart added some new 24x and 58x 387 and 427 Cid. short block kits this month. They are built with the Dart LS SHP blocks, K1 cranks and rods, Mostly Wiseco and some JE Pistons, Rings, Clevite H Bearings, along with cam bearing, galley plugs, and dowels, There's also 400 Cid. SBC and 565 Cid. BBC kits. We've attached a photo of them in catalog format so you can see what Compression ratios are with various chamber sizes. There's also a link to finding them on our site. Here's a link.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jayyk31 View Post
I have an iron 408. I used the Chinesium Lunati crank, Compstar rods, Wiseco slugs. No prob balancing, does not burn oil, no poston rock, and the crank measured really consistant on everyrhing. So im pretty sure if you go with any of the Callies, K1, Lunati, etc... stuff you shouldnt have any issues!
All my built motors for high boost or nitrous have experienced some amount of piston slap while cold and some oil use. Iím not an engine builder, but it was explained to me that 2618 alloy pistons require more piston to cylinder wall clearance for expansion. Also rings gapped larger for big nitrous or high boost. My 408 pistons had wear on the skirts when we pulled it apart. Maybe the builders I used in the past were bsín me because apparently these things donít happen to anyone else, but it sounded like legit trade offs for big power builds to me???
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Old 01-08-2019, 04:24 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by BCNUL8R
I agree thatís why I feel we need a more defined goal here. Iím not an engine builder, but I do my own tuning and have experience with a lot of different combinations. Iíve had a 11.5 to 1 compression 408 and that was more fun on the street than my current 346 at 8 psi. The centri is peaky power at low boost and small cubic inches. Now at 12 psi it really closed the gap on the fun side on that 408. That 4 psi made a huge difference in the 3 to 5000 rpm range where it was lacking before.

Basically if the power goal can be met naturally aspirated with cubic inches, great heads, etc that would be my preference. If the power goal canít be met NA and maintain streetability then donít worry about cubic inches and just run more boost to achieve the goal. Thatís my opinion and there are a ton of combinations available which makes it fun.
It is for a street car that will never see over 700whp for sure. I just need a decent quality rotating assembly that will take low to medium boost without any potential problems. To be honest 600whp is all I need to cruise the streets.
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Old 01-08-2019, 04:35 PM
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Good news! $150 worth of Summit Bucks on purchase of K1 rotating assemblies. Here are their present offerings! Limited time deal!
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Old 01-08-2019, 04:35 PM
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I just looked at the Summit Racing link and almost cried. I have WAY...WAY more than that in my GM sleeved shortblock.
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Old 01-08-2019, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Che70velle View Post
I just looked at the Summit Racing link and almost cried. I have WAY...WAY more than that in my GM sleeved shortblock.




The Dart Summit Shortblock Kits are great. They really put a lot of thought into them and cylinder lengths are long and happy with a lot of stroke. Wiseco and JE require minimal piston to wall clearance. Keep in mind, they are not assembled and will require finish hone. The crank isn't balanced and the rings need to be file fit. The decks are a few thousandths high. At the same time, they did a nice job of targeting compression ratio targets that are suitable for most or easily adapted to. They also held the line on stroke so little to any clearancing will be required down below. The Gen. 1 Small blocks were left at 3.750 so getting into small base circle cams aren't going to be required in most cases. The 565CID is 14:1 is a pretty mean deal too. It uses a Quick 16 Wiseco piston and a Big M Sportsman block.
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Last edited by Summitracing; 01-08-2019 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:04 PM
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So, if we are only aiming for 600 whp, are forged internals really necessary? I say "we" because it sounds like the OP and I have the same power and streetability goals.

Honestly, I think 600 whp is way too much for a street car/daily driver. I'm just thinking that's about where we are going to end up with a little heads/cam/intake work on a Pro-Charger. I'm currently at 382 whp. Pro-Charger typically advertises a 50% increase. So, I would probably end up around 570-580 whp...?
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by petkol View Post
It is for a street car that will never see over 700whp for sure. I just need a decent quality rotating assembly that will take low to medium boost without any potential problems. To be honest 600whp is all I need to cruise the streets.
For a procharged LS at 600 to 700 rwhp a well built 347 with forged rods/pistons oem crank with decent heads, ls6 intake, and a proper cam for the combo would get you there easily and be reliable. For a procharged motor I'd go with an LS2 or Iron 6.0 block with an oem crank over a 383 ls1 any day, but a 347 ls1 will get you to that goal also.

For what it's worth on street tires at near 600 rwhp in 50 degree temps I can blow the tires off so easy from a 20 mph roll it's like reving the car in neutral. This is with a procharged 346 which is not a low rpm torque monster setup. You'll have plenty of fun with a 600 to 700 rwhp 347 on the street.
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Utinator View Post
So, if we are only aiming for 600 whp, are forged internals really necessary? I say "we" because it sounds like the OP and I have the same power and streetability goals.

Honestly, I think 600 whp is way too much for a street car/daily driver. I'm just thinking that's about where we are going to end up with a little heads/cam/intake work on a Pro-Charger. I'm currently at 382 whp. Pro-Charger typically advertises a 50% increase. So, I would probably end up around 570-580 whp...?
600 whp is not too much for the street at all, but you just have to respect the power and don't drive over your head. Forged internals aren't necessary for that power. That's where I'm at with a stock bottom end, but it's a low mileage weekend toy with occasional drag strip visits. I'm of the mindset of not taking apart a good running motor so don't be afraid to boost your stock motor. Just understand it will not last forever at that level and I wouldn't push a daily that far. Power potential is based upon the CFM the blower is producing. Boost is measured at the intake and is a measure of resistance. If you have a good flowing motor it will make more power at a lower boost number. Their 50% increase is based upon a stock motor with the pulley they supply with the base kit. The rpm you spin the blower will determine how much power it's capable of supporting period. The boost number will vary based upon how well the motor flows. A cammed 346 with really nice heads and high flowing exhaust might make 600 whp at 10 psi while a stock ls1 with the same blower and pulley combo might make 600 whp, but be at 15 psi.

Last edited by BCNUL8R; 01-08-2019 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:47 PM
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Cast pistons break due to tight .011-ish ring end gaps most often and take out everything. Gaping worn rings on stock pistons is odd if everything comes apart anyway. Putting new rings that need gapped anyway on an old piston also not a good way to go and the ring grooves in the piston are worn. So that leaves new forged pistons with extra thick lands and file to fit rings and *usuallyĒ aftermarket 6.125 length .927 rods being a logical upgrade and one considered a good value. Factory cast crank is ok at that, but not a lot more money for another 40 cubes with a stroker. Less reciprocating weight for faster acceleration and something that can take a serious beating.

Last edited by Summitracing; 01-08-2019 at 05:56 PM.
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