z06 243s vs PRC as cast 225s
01-20-2019, 11:13 PM
#61
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
I'd be looking for something lighter than that monster clutch. That 18lb flywheel is heavier than my entire clutch assembly. Now you don't have to go that light but i wouldn't want anything over 30lb complete.
01-21-2019, 09:05 AM
#63
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
I'd look into quarter master or even spec. I think they both have reasonable priced aluminum hatted clutches. Then combine that with a aluminum flywheel and it should get you right in the sweet spot.
might have to go over your 1k budget on clutch but the $ you save from the heads will cover that.
might have to go over your 1k budget on clutch but the $ you save from the heads will cover that.
01-21-2019, 09:41 PM
#65
I still say 243's can get down. A nice RPS twin disc could help his efforts too.
01-22-2019, 12:30 PM
#67
The basics is it was a bolt on ls6. It has been ran with out rockers and with. Various forms of mods....no build thread because it's just been a running list of changes since 2002 when it was first installed. So alot of stuff available today wasn't even available back then.
it's never been tracked with a crank scraper although the final dyno was with that. Never ran with a shortbelt or a 16v battery. The belt system is modded tho but has seen various forms. It's been ran with and w/o a ewp,
11.1@124.x was about as simple as it gets for a hotrod. Ls6 intake, stock rockers, 3.90 gear in the 10bolt, stock tq arm, stock slp bilsteins, stock drive shaft, stock interior, no aero mods, single 3.5" exhaust, gms maf, kooks headers, drag pak and light clutch.
moral of the story is it went from the first passes once the ls6 was installed at 12.1 or 12.2 to picking up 1.5 seconds and 13mph with the same engine. So the magic isn't in which perfect head or cam anyone decides is the bestest combo on the planet. But instead how the overall package is put together.
if it woulda made passes in the ls6's final form it woulda likely been in the 10.4 @132-135 range......all with the same cam....same heads that it first went 12.2 with. Even hp from that first run till the last run only changed about 20whp(398 to 417). Then the final output of that same stock h/c was 451whp. That was with a crank scraper, shortbelt, td x exhaust, 1.8 rockers, my duggy box, through a 9".
it's never been tracked with a crank scraper although the final dyno was with that. Never ran with a shortbelt or a 16v battery. The belt system is modded tho but has seen various forms. It's been ran with and w/o a ewp,
11.1@124.x was about as simple as it gets for a hotrod. Ls6 intake, stock rockers, 3.90 gear in the 10bolt, stock tq arm, stock slp bilsteins, stock drive shaft, stock interior, no aero mods, single 3.5" exhaust, gms maf, kooks headers, drag pak and light clutch.
moral of the story is it went from the first passes once the ls6 was installed at 12.1 or 12.2 to picking up 1.5 seconds and 13mph with the same engine. So the magic isn't in which perfect head or cam anyone decides is the bestest combo on the planet. But instead how the overall package is put together.
if it woulda made passes in the ls6's final form it woulda likely been in the 10.4 @132-135 range......all with the same cam....same heads that it first went 12.2 with. Even hp from that first run till the last run only changed about 20whp(398 to 417). Then the final output of that same stock h/c was 451whp. That was with a crank scraper, shortbelt, td x exhaust, 1.8 rockers, my duggy box, through a 9".
Appreciate the info and I'm glad you posted that. I was curious what set your car apart from the SS I used to have. It didn't have any big bad donkey dick parts on it but what it did have worked well together. It was a full weight 2000 SS and it did 1.6x 60 ft, 7.6 1/8th and 12.3 1/4. That was years ago and I wasn't much of a track person so I'm not sure where the time slips are to give you the MPH. Mine was a bone stock high mileage LS1 long block, the only thing modded inside the engine was LS6 valve springs because I broke 8 of the stock LS1 springs. Oddly it broke just the tips of the springs, not down in the middle area of the coils. It was just an LS6 intake, hooker long tubes, lanes true duals, yank SS3800 and 3.73's. No weight reduction, actually it had weight addition. Had a system in it and a large truck alternator. Had zr1 front wheels too. Nothing special at all. I've always preached the right combo is better than the biggest. I used to pull cammed cars a lot with huge cams and stalls. It was hilarious to see dudes get really mad when their gutted donkey dick cam and stall car got drug.
Edit: guess I need to back that up a hair, looks like you went 11.1 with similar mods than I had. What mods did the car have when it went 12.2/3?
I guess the main game changer here (between yours and mine) is the LS6 motor and heads. Seems like you're getting near 1 sec lower ET from the LS6 block and heads.
Mine ran about as good as any bolt on full weight LS1 853 head car. There are some freak stories out there but mine did well to do 7.6 in the 1/8th with a system in it. Seemed like it kinda laid over on the back half of the track though in the 1/4 only doing 12.3. Might of had too much tire, it had 28" slicks on racestars on that pass. No other mods except those listed above. And that was the only 1/4 mile pass I ever made in that car outside of the one pass when it was bone stock and did a 13.7 lol
Last edited by 00pooterSS; 01-22-2019 at 12:37 PM.
01-22-2019, 04:56 PM
#68
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Appreciate the info and I'm glad you posted that. I was curious what set your car apart from the SS I used to have. It didn't have any big bad donkey dick parts on it but what it did have worked well together. It was a full weight 2000 SS and it did 1.6x 60 ft, 7.6 1/8th and 12.3 1/4. That was years ago and I wasn't much of a track person so I'm not sure where the time slips are to give you the MPH. Mine was a bone stock high mileage LS1 long block, the only thing modded inside the engine was LS6 valve springs because I broke 8 of the stock LS1 springs. Oddly it broke just the tips of the springs, not down in the middle area of the coils. It was just an LS6 intake, hooker long tubes, lanes true duals, yank SS3800 and 3.73's. No weight reduction, actually it had weight addition. Had a system in it and a large truck alternator. Had zr1 front wheels too. Nothing special at all. I've always preached the right combo is better than the biggest. I used to pull cammed cars a lot with huge cams and stalls. It was hilarious to see dudes get really mad when their gutted donkey dick cam and stall car got drug.
Edit: guess I need to back that up a hair, looks like you went 11.1 with similar mods than I had. What mods did the car have when it went 12.2/3?
I guess the main game changer here (between yours and mine) is the LS6 motor and heads. Seems like you're getting near 1 sec lower ET from the LS6 block and heads.
Mine ran about as good as any bolt on full weight LS1 853 head car. There are some freak stories out there but mine did well to do 7.6 in the 1/8th with a system in it. Seemed like it kinda laid over on the back half of the track though in the 1/4 only doing 12.3. Might of had too much tire, it had 28" slicks on racestars on that pass. No other mods except those listed above. And that was the only 1/4 mile pass I ever made in that car outside of the one pass when it was bone stock and did a 13.7 lol
Edit: guess I need to back that up a hair, looks like you went 11.1 with similar mods than I had. What mods did the car have when it went 12.2/3?
I guess the main game changer here (between yours and mine) is the LS6 motor and heads. Seems like you're getting near 1 sec lower ET from the LS6 block and heads.
Mine ran about as good as any bolt on full weight LS1 853 head car. There are some freak stories out there but mine did well to do 7.6 in the 1/8th with a system in it. Seemed like it kinda laid over on the back half of the track though in the 1/4 only doing 12.3. Might of had too much tire, it had 28" slicks on racestars on that pass. No other mods except those listed above. And that was the only 1/4 mile pass I ever made in that car outside of the one pass when it was bone stock and did a 13.7 lol
Yours did decent no doubt. I'm sure you look back and think how easy it woulda been to touch the 11s with it now.
i never got real far with the ls1. 13.5@108 stock on like a 2.3 60'. 13.0 with just a gms mass air and a ait lid then 12.6@112.8 with the addition of poopy mac headers/ory, free mods, udp and a spec clutch with aluminum fly wheel. I never ran it with a dr on it so et was gonna suffer. It only ever had the ls1 intake on it and was full weight stock wheels and all.
i put the ls6 in it because a buddy $ shifted the ls1. With the ls6 in place of the ls1 using identical parts it went except i did put a ls6 intake on the ls6 it went .4 faster(12.2ish) but trapped 118ish.....even on the ls1 tune. Still no dr.
That's when the progression started lol. Got it to go 11.8@119.8 pretty easily with a homemade catback, tuned with better matched injectors and 4.10 gears on 18s with r compounds. No doubt it lost a little weight here and there with mods because i was always picky about that but no major weight reduction. It was never a heavy car anyway since it was a hard top.
i didn't run it for years after that. Just dd'd it and tinkered here and there getting weight out, adding some kooks headers and a ewp along the way. Got tired of messing up t56's with spec clutches and set up a 5.5 tilton anf got the t56 faceplated in like late 07 into 08. Still didn't run it for a couple years after that. When i did it went 11.5@122.x still on the 18s with no dr. But it was out of gear with the 4.10s. It was on the limiter at the 1000' mark. Addition of 3.90s and a drag pack with a dr) was all it took to go 11.1@124.
it was on again then. I started tinkering more it just kept going faster.
There's usually plenty of acceleration left in a car. It's not always about the biggest this or the baddast that. It's about finding the next bottle neck and addressing it to optimize your combo.
01-23-2019, 12:48 PM
#69
Good read
Yours did decent no doubt. I'm sure you look back and think how easy it woulda been to touch the 11s with it now.
i never got real far with the ls1. 13.5@108 stock on like a 2.3 60'. 13.0 with just a gms mass air and a ait lid then 12.6@112.8 with the addition of poopy mac headers/ory, free mods, udp and a spec clutch with aluminum fly wheel. I never ran it with a dr on it so et was gonna suffer. It only ever had the ls1 intake on it and was full weight stock wheels and all.
i put the ls6 in it because a buddy $ shifted the ls1. With the ls6 in place of the ls1 using identical parts it went except i did put a ls6 intake on the ls6 it went .4 faster(12.2ish) but trapped 118ish.....even on the ls1 tune. Still no dr.
That's when the progression started lol. Got it to go 11.8@119.8 pretty easily with a homemade catback, tuned with better matched injectors and 4.10 gears on 18s with r compounds. No doubt it lost a little weight here and there with mods because i was always picky about that but no major weight reduction. It was never a heavy car anyway since it was a hard top.
i didn't run it for years after that. Just dd'd it and tinkered here and there getting weight out, adding some kooks headers and a ewp along the way. Got tired of messing up t56's with spec clutches and set up a 5.5 tilton anf got the t56 faceplated in like late 07 into 08. Still didn't run it for a couple years after that. When i did it went 11.5@122.x still on the 18s with no dr. But it was out of gear with the 4.10s. It was on the limiter at the 1000' mark. Addition of 3.90s and a drag pack with a dr) was all it took to go 11.1@124.
it was on again then. I started tinkering more it just kept going faster.
There's usually plenty of acceleration left in a car. It's not always about the biggest this or the baddast that. It's about finding the next bottle neck and addressing it to optimize your combo.
Yours did decent no doubt. I'm sure you look back and think how easy it woulda been to touch the 11s with it now.
i never got real far with the ls1. 13.5@108 stock on like a 2.3 60'. 13.0 with just a gms mass air and a ait lid then 12.6@112.8 with the addition of poopy mac headers/ory, free mods, udp and a spec clutch with aluminum fly wheel. I never ran it with a dr on it so et was gonna suffer. It only ever had the ls1 intake on it and was full weight stock wheels and all.
i put the ls6 in it because a buddy $ shifted the ls1. With the ls6 in place of the ls1 using identical parts it went except i did put a ls6 intake on the ls6 it went .4 faster(12.2ish) but trapped 118ish.....even on the ls1 tune. Still no dr.
That's when the progression started lol. Got it to go 11.8@119.8 pretty easily with a homemade catback, tuned with better matched injectors and 4.10 gears on 18s with r compounds. No doubt it lost a little weight here and there with mods because i was always picky about that but no major weight reduction. It was never a heavy car anyway since it was a hard top.
i didn't run it for years after that. Just dd'd it and tinkered here and there getting weight out, adding some kooks headers and a ewp along the way. Got tired of messing up t56's with spec clutches and set up a 5.5 tilton anf got the t56 faceplated in like late 07 into 08. Still didn't run it for a couple years after that. When i did it went 11.5@122.x still on the 18s with no dr. But it was out of gear with the 4.10s. It was on the limiter at the 1000' mark. Addition of 3.90s and a drag pack with a dr) was all it took to go 11.1@124.
it was on again then. I started tinkering more it just kept going faster.
There's usually plenty of acceleration left in a car. It's not always about the biggest this or the baddast that. It's about finding the next bottle neck and addressing it to optimize your combo.
Thanks again for the info. That LS6 out of the box did considerably better than the LS1 and looks like it raised the ceiling of what can be had with a well matched combo. Do you mind sharing what you did for weight reduction?
I wanted to pull things out of my car to lighten it and do a cam etc, but I drove that car daily and put a absolute minimum of 400-500 miles a week on it. Often I drove 700-1000 miles a week so I left all the safety stuff in it and stock cam, didn't want to worry about any spring issues etc when I was doing 2 150 mile round trips a weekend.
One of the saddest things is, I had true LS6 243 heads with only 20k miles on them in the garage for over a year (also harland sharp roller rockers, springs with titanium retainers, 228/228 cam and all) sitting and waiting till I could get an A to B car and hoping life would slow down a hair so I could tear it down and install, but ended up selling the car before any of it was put on. Had I known any of this stuff (seeing your posts) I would have forced life to slow down to at least put the 243's on.