Originally Posted by Summitracing

We apologize for the delay in answering this. All piston manufacturers and all machinists would prefer to hone a minimum of .005 to get a fresh surface. Bore/hone a block when wear is more severe with 50k plus miles or has surface rust. Best option? Take to it a machine shop. Almost always a better outcome other than the expense and potentially having the machine shop "adding another thou" to the measurement to ensure the job "doesn't come back".

What is the reality though? We all know someone that built an engine on a dirt floor and was successful.

Let's start off with the first comment we hear... "The cylinder is like new, you can still see the cross hatch". The problem is a cylinder will still have cross-hatch at 200k miles and still be completely worn out because the crosshatch may be up to .008" deep to begin with. The result is excessive piston to wall. Smoke, Oil Consumption. Piston Slap etc. Remember even .001 over our .004 "metal to metal" spec is 25% more than we recommended to begin with.

So how do you measure it? Unfortunately, this is beyond feeler gauges and snap gauges. Dial bore gauges only accurate to .001 in. are better, but if you've ever used a quality dial bore gauge accurate to .0001, you will feel naked if you are forced to use anything lesser. Not many hobbyists have those tools though.

Option 2: Ok, so 90% of folks don't own a good dial bore gauge and/or 4-5" Transfer Micrometer. What's the next criteria to having success with a standard bore piston? Well, best case scenario is you are running a low mileage engine and it hasn't been opened up and sitting. Metal sweats in changes in heat/cold and it rusts.

So what hone to use? Never use a three stone hone for this type of work. We're all familiar with bottle or "dingle ball" hones and the Brush Research Flex Hone are the best of the bunch. This is the part number most commonly used with LS 5.3 through 7.0L engines. Here are the instructions. Another option we like is the Wiseco W6079 Soft Hone Brush...it cleans the bores without removing the material...meaning less chance for error by the operator.

Lastly, Clean the bores with acetone and white paper towels until they absolutely come up clean. This might take 30-45 minutes or more. A lot of stones and dingle ball brushes use aluminum oxide abrasives. ANY left in the bore will come loose and quickly wear out EVERYTHING.

This is really just the tip of the iceberg, but you really need to consider this before making your decision to stay standard or hone or bore/hone. We haven't hit on the importance of torque plate honing and often "sending the boring bar" down a perfectly good looking bore at .030 over won't clean up all surfaces.

Originally Posted by Summitracing

Let's start off with the first comment we hear... "The cylinder is like new, you can still see the cross hatch". The problem is a cylinder will still have cross-hatch at 200k miles and still be completely worn out because the crosshatch may be up to .008" deep to begin with. The result is excessive piston to wall. Smoke, Oil Consumption. Piston Slap etc. Remember even .001 over our .004 "metal to metal" spec is 25% more than we recommended to begin with.

Originally Posted by kingtal0n

Sorry I know this area is highly varied and there is no one size fits all solution

however I'm still having some trouble understanding exactly ,
It seems like you are suggesting to take original engines with 50k-200k mileage and hone them out for STD+.005" style pistons,
And that it will be very rare to use actual STD size pistons unless the engine has less than 50k mileage roughly

Originally Posted by kingtal0n

Sorry I know this area is highly varied and there is no one size fits all solution

however I'm still having some trouble understanding exactly ,
It seems like you are suggesting to take original engines with 50k-200k mileage and hone them out for STD+.005" style pistons,
And that it will be very rare to use actual STD size pistons unless the engine has less than 50k mileage roughly

Originally Posted by kingtal0n

Sorry I know this area is highly varied and there is no one size fits all solution

however I'm still having some trouble understanding exactly ,
It seems like you are suggesting to take original engines with 50k-200k mileage and hone them out for STD+.005" style pistons,
And that it will be very rare to use actual STD size pistons unless the engine has less than 50k mileage roughly

Originally Posted by Summitracing

Yes, KCS nailed it. It's best to take any block to a machine shop prior to ordering pistons. They'll have a setting fixture and good dial bore gauge and can tell you how much wear the bore has. Many people do run standard bore pistons and they're pretty loose. That's a little like rebuilding an engine though and not getting all the life out of it you could if you were to just start at the next bore size where the bores can clean up.

Also to clarify our earlier comment about honing. A bottle brush is just there to get the cross hatch and it's not designed to get you up to the next available bore size like 4.005 for instance.

Originally Posted by steves86ta

I have a set that are going in my Aluminum block 5.3. I am very impressed with the quality and fit/finish of the pistons.

The only thing, and it may have bene mentioned but it wasnt quite clear to me. Is the compression height is lower than expected. What i mean by that is that with a STD deck height in my block im .010" BELOW the deck.

Not a problem for my deal since its turboed, but might be a problem for others. Also, if you do the math and consider a stock deck height of 9.240 they come out to 10 below the deck.

Originally Posted by Summitracing

Hello, when piston manufacturers call out a bore size-they dial in their own skirt diameter clearance for that bore because different forging styles have different needs. If you hone the block to 3.903, you would find our pistons to be .004" smaller (3.899) as measured at the gauge point in the skirt coating. Boring isn't necessary with an LS1 and usually isn't done unless .010 in. or more bore size is required, so for you..just honing is necessary and this costs less money at a machine shop.

As for method, it is best for the machinist to use a micrometer to measure the piston and set the micrometer off that.. Then they use the micrometer to set the dial bore gauge. Then they use the dial bore gauge to hone the cylinders in relation to the pistons. This is the best way to make sure fluctuations in shop temperature are never an issue.

Thank you for your patronage!

Originally Posted by booz

Thanks. Also, you said that your pistons are at 0 deck. I want the pistons to be .006 out the hole to have more cc as before. How much to cut on the decks to be like before.

Originally Posted by booz

Thanks. Also, you said that your pistons are at 0 deck. I want the pistons to be .006 out the hole to have more cc as before. How much to cut on the decks to be like before.

Originally Posted by steves86ta

somewhere around .016" if my math is right and your block is 9.240

Originally Posted by Summitracing

Please see our previous notes on this. Your measurements will need to be retaken with a bridge indicator. Verify the piston is in the center of dwell. Then measure positive and negative values when rocked and average them. Then take the average of both sides,

Originally Posted by steves86ta

i did check mine with a deck bridge... multiple times... and multiple indicators...

.010" below the deck... also using the wallace racing calculator i come up with .01"