I have the opportunity to cryo engine parts locally, I have been planning to do that to the crankshaft...

As I understand it, they freeze it to -300F, and then heat it several times... Supposedly it will toughen the parts.

I can cryo my stock crank for about $135.

Anyone have any opinions?

What else would you consider cryoing at the same time, rods? pistons?

<small>[ March 21, 2003, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Pro Stock John ]</small>

 

my local guy could do the whole engine for about $250.

if i was in your shoes , i'd freeze the whole engine.

from what i've been told , the proccess involves freezing the parts to -300 gradually and leaving it there for 48 hours. this realigns the molecules which inturn greatly improves wear characteristics. this means what ever parts experiencing wear i would go ahead and freeze.
hope this helps.

 

GTS SS cryo-trated some various parts a couple of years back. I think he did his crank, but I'm not sure. Maybe he can chime in.

 

A whole motor will run me over $500 so that's not gonna happen, and I don't see the value in cryoing the block yet?

Any scientific links that show the benefit of doing this?

Perhaps Playboy GTS SS will chime in.

 

http://www.moreperformanceinc.com/Cryogenics.htm

 

Waste of money if you ask me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

Well I for sure plan to do the crank but I'm tempted to the rods too...

Thanks for that link, the pricing is the same as this place in Chicago...

 

I would do the crank and rods.I talked to
-300 a few years ago and they told me alot of pro-stock and pro-mods were seeing good improvements in longevity. I do know for fact that gun parts last alot longer if cryo'd. especially barrels and firing pins. Seen that first hand.

 

Another good post!

I have a Pro Mod contact I will ask, that's great to know...

I'm not worried about wear as much as snapping the crank snout off with the blower setup.

 

Please let us know what you find out.

 

The prices from More Performance look pretty good. I don't know if the cryo treatment is just black voodoo magic or not, but it couldn't hurt.

PSJ, let us know what your Pro Mod contact has to say.

 

If you do it, definitely do the rods, too.

Any benefit to doing the bearings if you are going spin the motor to high rpm?

 

I would consider the rods a higher priority than the crank. So yes, I agree you should do the rods.
Another part that benefits a lot from cryo treating is the rotors. A lot of AutoX guys cryo treat their expensive rotors, I've heard reports of this making them last 4 times longer.
I would like to hear about the results of cryo treating the ring/pinion in our weak rear ends.

 

from what i gathered , cryoing is still like a black art, not enough scientific studies have been done on it yet.

some one once froze a batch of razors and they lasted 6 weeks ( untreated blades only lasted 1.5 weeks).

i don't see why freezing the block is't benificial, since the cylinder walls are subjected to alot of friction.

 

Cylinder walls need to wear a little. I wonder how many miles it would take to seat the rings on a cryo'd block.

Eric

 

This dont have anything to do with motors but I had my baseball bats cryoed. It helped keep the bats from denting. It made the barrel alot stronger.

ALbert

 

Go for it. I say cryo everything you can BUT make sure the part is finished before you cryo it. Like say your heads. Make sure you port them and such before the cryo job or the porter will hate you forever! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> All i did in my engine so far are the Valve springs and valves. Thought about the complete head but didnt see the need. Next will be my brake rotors (when i get them) or ANY internal eng. part i buy in the future.

 

PSJ,

I can ask my buddy for you. He's pretty big time in the Mustang world. He knows much more than 'stang crap though. Another professional opinion can't hurt right? I'll talk to him about your build up and possibly cyro'ing if you'd like. Here's a post about him for a little background:

https://ls1tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...c;f=5;t=004181

Dan

<small>[ March 22, 2003, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: unit213 ]</small>

 

I wonder what freezing the block would do to it dimensionally? How cold is the cyro? What is the heatup rate? If its frozen real fast it might crack something, kinda like running ice water into overheated block.

 

The process entails taking steel, or sometimes aluminum or titanium parts, very slowly down from room temperature to –300 degrees below zero, roughly at about one degree per minute. At that point, about 12 hours later, we begin a hold cycle, which is normally from 24 to 36 hours, also at 300 below. At the end of that period, we slowly warm the parts back up to room temperature, again at about one degree per minute. Then we perform a triple heat temper, from 275 to 375 degrees in three different heat and cooling cycles. This process will realign the molecules so they become more uniform, relieve the stress, and the surfaces will actually be smoother.

A conventional heat treatment must be done prior to the cryogenic process, The cryogenic treatment improves the wear characteristics in metal fatigue, especially in short track pinion gears; abrasive wear in brake rotors and cylinder bores; and adhesive wear or galling in racing engines. One Cryo also treats crankshafts, connecting rods, camshafts, pistons, valves and valve springs, heads, rocker arms, spark plugs, engine blocks, intake manifolds and rear ends.

Parts are loaded into a deep cryogenic processor and the freezing process is controlled by a computer,. The computer has predetermined profiles for each part you are treating. There are several things that happen during the process. As the molecules in the part get colder, there’s less entropy, less energy, they slow down, and they get closer together, and better bonds form. Anywhere there’s a weak molecular bond or no bond, that’s where the fracture zone is, where it’s going to break. So when the part is slowly heated up, the bonds stay in place, so you’ve got a stronger piece. One of the last things that happens is what we call a carbide precipitant growth, which fills the micro-voids. When the gaps in steel are filled up, it can withstand more force.

They take all types of tools and engine parts, and freeze them to 300 degrees below zero to improve their wear characteristics and durability. The engine is more stabilized, the cylinder walls don’t warp and crack, it gives less blow by on the pistons, more compression and higher horsepower, and a longer time between rebuilds.

The process is also used for aluminum, It’s fantastic on aluminum. Not only is it tougher and more durable, but it machines so much easier. We treat bare metal for machinists, and a lot of times, you get a more true machining, because when it heats up, it doesn’t bend and warp, because all the stress is gone.

The cryogenic process compresses the molecules in parts such as engines, transmissions, rear-ends and brake components. This forces the molecules into a uniform pattern that doesn’t allow for peaks and valleys –imperfections which aren’t visible to the naked eye, but can be seen when the part is viewed under a microscope. Each one of these peaks and valleys can be a potential breaking point,.

All of the engine parts can benefit from the cryogenic treatment, since it helps to increase the life of the part by reducing friction and increasing strength, All of the aluminum pieces can now be treated to be as comparable strong as steel, while still retaining their lightweight advantages. One example of this is the cryogenic treating of cylinder heads. This stabilizes the aluminum, so the racer gets less deflection and distortion in the head, and even heating across the combustion chamber to help with consistent power from start to finish.

We’ve all seen the brake rotors on short track cars get hot to the point of glowing red. In the past, this presented a major problem. This heat will lead to the brake rotor warping and brake pads prematurely failing, as well as boiling the brake fluid.

These brake problems can be addressed by treating not only the brake rotor and pads, but also the spindle, wheel bearings, hubs and calipers. Basically, everything that could be affected by heat has been cryogenically treated. This gives the aluminum a more equal heating characteristic to its steel counterpart. With all of the pieces heating up at the same rate, there is less chance of brake failure, Cryogenics builds in more durability.

<small>[ March 25, 2003, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: J-Rod ]</small>