If it's s a stock or stock rebuilt near stock LS1, I suggest reading this thread and considering a junkyard LS3 or similar before building a 383 LS1. The 6.0 is also a good way forward.

LS3 vs 383 LS1

Short version 383 LS1 are nice, they make a few hp more than a heads and cam LS1 and 30-45 more cartwheel torque. They cost as basically as much to build as a 416 stroker LS3. Cost of the blocks basic difference. Your going to need cam, better heads, new intake manifold, rods, crank, pistons.

The LS3 has more potential than an 383 LS1 and potentially much better longevity without needing a refresh.

 

The LQ comes with a 4.00 in. bore and there's room to grow later if the need calls and at least you can still run your intake and heads. I would want a better cam and a decent set of 243s as they can be had for much cheaper these days.

 

Per the article in Hot Rod, 97-98 shouldn't be bored at all (due to possible misalignment of the sleeves from the factory), and 99+ (don't recall upper limit) can be bored up to .010.

 

I'm still on the fence about the whole thing, but yeah for a stock LS1 it doesn't seem to make much sense to spend a crapton of money upgrading the bottom end. I'll still want better heads and intake/TB as well, and that adds up fast.

As much as I would love the LS3 swap, I'm just not sure. They still seem to be on the expensive side, plus there's the added cost of adapting it to a gen3 car. I know that's a relatively straightforward process, but it's still additional expense on top of an already expensive block and bottom end. From what I'm seeing, I'd be looking at nearly my entire budget just for an LS3 block and forged rotating assembly.

Leaning mostly towards an LQ4 build at this point, I'm seeing tons of LQ4s in junkyards, and I'm hoping I can pick up a long block relatively inexpensively. Plus 317 heads would be great for now, and I like the idea of keeping the compression low-ish for possible future FI.

 

Boom. Thanks! .005 is not worth boring about anyway. Honing does that much. Either way, not worth it.

 

Just a quick update, found the smoking gun. #5 and 6 rod bearings spun and were subsequently chewed up pretty good. Also confirmed our suspicions that the bottom end was completely stock, GM crank rods and pistons.

















So against almost all advice, I think I'm pretty much decided on the idea of rebuilding the LS1 with a 383 bottom end. The more I look, LQ4/LQ9's are going to run me at least another $1K, plus the time needed to source one and get it back to the shop (no small feat when all you have is a 5th gen). That would be going the junkyard route as well, and I'm not sure I want to risk the block being cracked or otherwise too damaged. If the block I have is good, it seems easiest to just re-use it. We should have the block in the machine shop on Wednesday to get cleaned up and measured.

 

Just curious how your going to move the ls1 around but you cant move a lq4 around?
Either way its not my money so have at it!

 

The cost for the 4" crank, aftermarket rods and pistons doesn't change much if any but your limiting yourself to only a 383 with the LS1. If having to buy a new block is a deal breaker then your already headed down that slippery slope especially when it comes to making boosted power.

Think about that for a minute!

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-6-0L...wAAOSwbBpcitFy

free shipping ONLY 219k miles still got another 150k left in it! lol

 

^^^^^^^^

If the cost of getting LS2/LS3/L99 etc block is an issue, the idea of building a quality 4 inch stroke LS1 is a very marginal proposal.

Have a 416 LSA block stroker & 383 LS1 up and running. Currently planning building a 408 LS2, speaking from that level of experience.

Boosted I'd skip the 4 inch crank stroker altogether. Making power with the boost and a good stock 3.62 crank work better.

 

LS1 came in with the car on a tow truck. We have the use of an engine stand at the shop, and the machine shop is going to be in the shop on Wed. for a dropoff, so planned on having them take the LS1 with them.

Ok, ok, I get it. If I build the LS1 it will just result in lost sleep and years of "woulda, coulda, shoulda". Maybe it's been discussed before, but how terrible are the stock 317 heads on the LQ4? As others have said I want to do a forged rotating assembly either way, so for my mind I might as well do a 408ci build. If I'm going that route, will I absolutely have to have the heads ported/replaced, or are they good enough for now?

Amusingly enough it seems I already have an LS6 intake (flat bottom, not angled down like the LS1). Same deal, is this enough for a 408 or would I absolutely be looking at something like a FAST92/102?

The cam I have now was an MTI, we believe an X1 (230/227 .592/.571 112LSA). Going to get it measured by a shop with a cam doctor, but let's assume those numbers are correct. Doesn't seem nearly big enough to me for a 408 build.

So really, here's what I'd be looking at worst case incremental cost for an LQ4 vs. a LS1

LQ4 Block: $1,000
Heads: $2,000 minimum for decent aftermarket heads
Cam: $3-400
FAST intake/TB: $1,000

I guess at that point an argument could be made to go LS3 heads/intake, but the cost there seems around the same to me. So by my math, this adds almost $5K to the build. Or am I totally out in left field?

 

Aah ok, I guess I hadn't really thought about that. If the stock heads and LS6 intake are "good enough" on a stock stroke 6.0 then that might be the way to go. Get it running for now, and be setup for boost down the road.

 

The cam, 317's, and the LS6 intake obviously aren't ideal, but they would work just fine for a street car until you decide to get something better. I have a set of stock 317's on my 440ci combo and the small port makes the car very responsive. I only have a FAST 78mm on it as well, which I found used for almost as cheap as a used LS6 intake. Assuming you would still use a stock size MAF, you may need to have a good tuner scale it properly or just delete it and run speed density.

If you're serious about doing a 408, I have a good iron 6.0L block, Callies 4" crank, and Callies 6.125" rods that I won't be using.

 

At this point I'm weighing the merits of a 364 vs. 408, but if the consensus is that the stock heads and existing intake setup would be decent enough for now that honestly makes the 408 sounds potentially more appealing. Planning on having it tuned by Pat G assuming I can get it running well enough to make the trip (might have him E-Mail me a baseline to get the car down to Victoria if that becomes necessary) I understand he is among the best at tuning LS motors, so I'm not overly worried about that. As far as MAF/SD, I will defer to his judgement, but I sorta assumed it would end up being SD, since that seems to be what most people are doing.

I'm certainly not dead set on FI, it's just something I had considered as maybe being an upgrade down the road, but that would likely be a ways off if at all. I may well just setup the car N/A and leave it alone. Anyway, there is plenty of other crap on this car to fix before I drop $7K+ on a blower setup. The budget isn't necessarily set in stone, and I'm certainly willing to put down what it costs to do it right. It's by no means a "max effort" build, but I definitely don't want to have to go back through the motor 6 months from now because I tried to cheap out on something. I like to think the work I'm doing now will last a few years and 30-50K miles unless I upgrade for better performance. The biggest reason I'm budget conscious is because of all of the rest of the work the car will need (full exhaust since the previous system was fully welded headers to tips and rusted to hell, fuel system is damn near completely junk, rear suspension is a nightmare, steering is sketchy at best even pushing it through a parking lot). Not trying to be cheap, just trying to find the best bang for the buck.

I would seriously be interested if you have a good LQ4 and crank/rods. You're in Conroe? The GF has some family up that way, and I'll bet I can bribe a buddy with an SUV to help me pick it up in exchange for a case of beer How much are you looking to get for it?

 

so what is the budget and HP goal? This could go soooo many different ways.

Rectangle heads and ls3 intake on stock dish lq4 pistons will get you an EASY 400 to 450 rwhp depending on cam
heads are usually $600-800
intake is usually less than $400 with injectors and fuel rail
And the compression would be still low for boost later, stock pistons with good tune will hold 700 rwhp for quite some time

just throwing ideas out there

 

Use what you got for now to get it back up and running and hopefully KCS can get you going with a 6.0 setup but if not just keep an eye out. I managed to get an LQ9 block from a local guy in Houston for around $500 that had some pitting in the No.5 cylinder but it cleaned up at 4.03 and I'll see if I can hunt down his number.

 

Hi Chris, honestly doing some numbers on the other areas first can help with forming your plan for the car. Sounds like an exciting rebuild/restoration project! I think it's fantastic you have a 4th Gen and are passionate about the car.



My 02 Z28 has good cosmetics so it's all about engine, transmission, rear end, suspension, brakes, exhaust and full supply. I sort of penciled in what all the other stuff will cost and then looked what's left for the engine part of the build.

FWIW - Getting or keeping the car running and useable always seems better for the car in my experience. It helps me stay focused and reduces "family" complaints about spending on a car that's not driveable.

You probably have already considered the following but I wanted to touch on the items briefly.

Full exhaust - Speed Engineering headers and true duals can be purchased for less than a $1,000 or something super nice like a full Kook's dual exhaust for ~$2,800+

Fuel system - depending on how far you want to take the car could vary, say to ~600 whp with an off the shelf Racetronix set up and new injectors ~$750 or so. Could be more of course with new bigger fuel lines and dual pumps etc to feed big forced induction power.

Rear suspension - it's pretty simple, depends on what you want ~$750 stockish upgraded to $1,500+ fully adjustable Vikings etc and

Steering/front suspension - sounds like a full rebuild with upgrades is in order. $500 stockish rebuild to $2000+ with aftermarket k member with matched a-arms another uogrades

Also to consider:

• Transmission condition? rebuild/replace, clutch or torque converter - between zero cost to $7,000
• Rear end, gears, aftermarket rear end, between zero cost to $5,000
• Aftermarket driveshaft? Yes/No - between zero cost to $1000
• Wheels and tires, sky's the limit say zero to $6,000 but $1,500 is a workable number
• Brake upgrades, sky's the limit say zero to $6,000 but $1,500 is a workable number
• Paint and body, sky's the limit say zero to $8,000 but $4,500 is a workable number
• Interior, zero to $3,000 with seats and dash pad being common items that need replaced or repaired, carpet possible, door panels, head liners, weather stripping depending on the car.

 

I'll send you a PM on the engine parts.

I was in the same boat not too long ago. Thought I got a good deal on a fixer upper Camaro, and it just turned out to be a lot worse than I thought. All of those little repairs really add up. I had planned on boost from the get go, so I rebuilt a cheap 4.8L to keep costs down. My other car I planned to keep NA, so I put the money into the shortblock and put the heads and intake I had laying around on it. I knew it wasn’t ideal, but I would rather swap the heads and intake later than swap the shortblock. If you don’t know which way you’re going to go, it’s a lot harder to make a decision and could end up with a never ending project.

 

As much as I know it's probably the wrong approach, the power goals are "whatever it makes" and the budget is "whatever it takes". Joking aside, I guess I'd like to see 450-500RWHP N/A, but the primary focus is a fun street car, so I won't shed any tears if it only makes 400, especially initially. Part of the reason I wanted to do a project build as opposed to modding the hell out of my 5th gen is that I have learned over the years not to screw around with my daily. The idea is it can take as long as it needs to and I'm not leaving myself stranded.

I fully expect the entire thing to take 3-5 years and maybe $20-30K by the time I'm done (who am I kidding, we're never "done" are we?). Essentially I kinda see it going in several phases:

Phase 1: Car occasionally runs when you turn the key, and can be driven from the parking lot to the shop stall under its own power
Phase 2: Car runs 90% of the time and is good enough to pass inspection and be registered, and can make short trips
Phase 3: Cosmetics, full interior rework, possibly paint, possibly nicer rims/tires, SS hood and hatch
Phase 4: Reliability, car fires every time you turn the key and can be trusted to drive to work if the DD is down, or the occasional 1-2 hour trip to the inlaws
Phase 5: Moar power, FI or *strong* N/A build, fancy heads, 102/102, possible E85 or meth as required

My tentative goal at the moment is to have phase 2 done by the end of the year, but I'm not in any rush. I'd rather do it right than do it quickly. I know I could just go buy a great car that's already making that much power for $15K or less, but this is as much about building it as it is having it. My brother and I have always been car guys since we were kids, and the dream was to restore a car. I guess this is about making that happen as much as anything else.

Exhaust: I've been looking at either the Speed Engineering or TSP setups. Around $1K for the whole thing, should be good enough for now. Will probably want to go Kook's later on, but not any time soon

Fuel: I figured something like a Racetronix setup makes sense here since I'm doing the whole damn system anyway. Doesn't make sense to muck around with the stock pump. Kinda in the dark for injector sizing, but I'll take a look around and see what other guys are doing with similar setups when the time comes.

Suspension: Haven't really put a ton of time into looking at it just yet, but I'll probably end up going mostly stock-alike for now, though I do want to lower it just a touch (I hate wheel gap on 4th gens). Eventually I'll get a nice adjustable setup, but again no hurry on that.

Steering: I know it needs a new intermediate shaft (u-joints are trashed), and there is some serious play in where the column mounts into the dash. Haven't pulled it all apart just yet, but I'm hoping it's nothing crazy. As far as I can tell the actual steering rack seems ok, but the P/S pump has been disconnected for ages so I wouldn't be surprised if it's full of rust.

Transmission: Trans is a T56, supposedly rebuilt not long before the car was parked. Goes in and out of all gears smoothly and spins over nicely. No reason to believe there's any issues there, but one of the guys in the shop is a 30 year GM trans guru, so I'll probably throw him some cash to go through it and just verify everything is kosher. Clutch is mint, clutch disk and pressure plate look almost new. Shouldn't need anything besides resurfacing the flywheel and probably a slave and throwout bearing (only because I have it out of the car, and they're cheap).

Rear end turns over easily enough, and doesn't seem to have any issues. Impossible to tell until I get it under load of course, but I don't have any reason to expect issues there. It's the stock rear, and I strongly suspect it's still running the factory 3.42's. A set of 3.90 or 4.10s and a 9-inch would be nice eventually, but again that's very long term.

Driveshaft is stock, and I don't see any reason to mess with it any time soon. No issues with it as far as we can tell, but I will probably have it balanced while it's out.

Tires are trash and I'm not overly fond of the wheels either. The previous owner expressed interest in buying the rims back so that may end up happening soon-ish. The rear had a BFH mod to accomodate 315s but I'm still undecided on going that big vs going down to something like a 275 (especially since I expect severe clearance issues if I lower the car). That may come down to a question of what fits.

Brake components are mostly ok, calipers are aftermarket and look good enough for the time being. Not a fan of the drilled and slotted rotors, but they are in decent shape. Probably just have the rotors turned and new pads because why not. Brake lines will probably all need to be replaced, but that's just a matter of a shitload of tubing, fittings, and four letter words.

Exterior: Longer term, but yeah it will need a full paint job and I plan on doing the SS hood and hatch. The body is good enough for now, no leaks or anything crazy, and I can get by with it for the time being.

Interior: There is precious little in the interior worth saving. Honestly I'm leaning towards buying a salvage/wrecked car with a decent interior and swapping the whole thing over when the time comes. I've seen cars with decent looking interiors on the order of $1K or less. Not a huge fan of the tan anyway. What I have now should be good enough to get running though, and I'll deal with this shortly after I get it up and running.

 

I dont even think it would be possible to have "Phase 1" Either its gonna run or its not....
Sounds like you need to just slap a junkyard 6.0 short block (or long block) in it with a decent cam and fire it up... you will jump straight to like phase 2.5 or something
$2500 max, including cam, springs, pushrods, gaskets, fluids, ect.