ANOTHER boosted 5.3 build with summit bottom end
11-19-2019, 01:23 PM
#62
I can when I get home but the first layer has no wear. I hate to sound like I’m being a hack, but many people have just thrown engines in their car without even looking. At least I know the crank and bearings is perfect. But I’ll check this evening. That money saved can buy my head gaskets or a good portion of my ferrea intake valves. Wife bought me the billet timing set and the exhaust valves for my birthday coming up.
11-19-2019, 01:47 PM
#64
no really. I have stock valves in my heads. I figured, on 20+psi a good valve would take the heat better and the ferrea valves pick up 10+ cfm in the mid lift over stock valves. The billet timing set is $117 shipped. Have you priced a stock chain? It’s like $60 with no gears for a roller chain. And have you priced a c5r chain only? It’s $150+.
having a good Chain is a good idea and I want to minimize slack and friction. Has a thrust bearing on the back side of it.
11-19-2019, 01:57 PM
#65
one-million-horsepower. i mean house power. Lol.
no really. I have stock valves in my heads. I figured, on 20+psi a good valve would take the heat better and the ferrea valves pick up 10+ cfm in the mid lift over stock valves. The billet timing set is $117 shipped. Have you priced a stock chain? It’s like $60 with no gears for a roller chain. And have you priced a c5r chain only? It’s $150+.
having a good Chain is a good idea and I want to minimize slack and friction. Has a thrust bearing on the back side of it.
no really. I have stock valves in my heads. I figured, on 20+psi a good valve would take the heat better and the ferrea valves pick up 10+ cfm in the mid lift over stock valves. The billet timing set is $117 shipped. Have you priced a stock chain? It’s like $60 with no gears for a roller chain. And have you priced a c5r chain only? It’s $150+.
having a good Chain is a good idea and I want to minimize slack and friction. Has a thrust bearing on the back side of it.
I don't replace the chains on my personal engines. But I know what your talking about as lots of people have paid me to replace chains, for some reason it makes them feel better when doing a cam swap. I just don't see a point, 200k mile chains take all the boost and rpm I can throw at them. Like I said before I'm not buying parts that cost more then the engine I'm installing them in. I'd much rather just have a spare engine standing by for if/when it gives up smoke.
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G Atsma (11-19-2019)
11-19-2019, 03:04 PM
#66
So your going to have the price of aftermarket heads into your stockers? Things like that don't make sense to me. Stock valves haven't flinched at 35PSI and 10cfm is basically a rats fart. But If I were to pay to upgrade the heads or valvetrain I would just buy a set of ready to bolt on aftermarket units for $1600 that have a thicker deck.
I don't replace the chains on my personal engines. But I know what your talking about as lots of people have paid me to replace chains, for some reason it makes them feel better when doing a cam swap. I just don't see a point, 200k mile chains take all the boost and rpm I can throw at them. Like I said before I'm not buying parts that cost more then the engine I'm installing them in. I'd much rather just have a spare engine standing by for if/when it gives up smoke.
I don't replace the chains on my personal engines. But I know what your talking about as lots of people have paid me to replace chains, for some reason it makes them feel better when doing a cam swap. I just don't see a point, 200k mile chains take all the boost and rpm I can throw at them. Like I said before I'm not buying parts that cost more then the engine I'm installing them in. I'd much rather just have a spare engine standing by for if/when it gives up smoke.
I never replaced the chain on my cam swaps, never had a problem. But I don’t know the history of this engine and it was crusty. The bearings did look good surprisingly but the chain had a bit of slack. I’m not buying the chain or the exhaust valves, so that’s not considered in my budget.
I don’t see why you’d think I’ll have the price of after market heads in my stockers. I have the heads already. I ported them myself. The multi angle valve job and the flowing of the head several times as I ported on them, cost me $100. Buddy deal. So, $200 for the heads originally, $100 for valve job, port work is free, and $150 for intake valves, and $146 for exhaust valves (that isn’t included). So $450 for a set of ported 243’s with stainless ferrea valves. Where can I find aftermarket heads that are better for that price?
I think you might have thought I was buying ported heads? I already have them. And while the valves are out, I’ll probably work on them a little more. It’s free, so why not. I’m trying to make the most out of what I have.
there’s a reason and a method to my madness. I like to split hairs on squeezing power out of things. All the little things add up. I chose longer rods to help reduce detonation sensitivity. I didn’t get head gaskets yet because I’ll wait till the bottom end is together to see how far the piston is in the hole, then I’ll set my quench around .045. Oil passages are getting deburred and smoothed. The same for the oil pump. Less power is used to spin the pump if everything flows better. The coatings on pistons and valves are for more detonation resistance. I already have the coating anyways so why not? I know what you are thinking. This guy is doing all this **** but don’t wanna do main studs? What an idiot.
well I’ve got more reasons than the $600 it’ll cost me. I was trying to refrain from going into detail, but this same shop cost me a whole engine from their carelessness. From heads to oil pan, destroyed. Long story short. Had a 383 stroker. Was making 450rwhp back in the late 90’s in my daily driver(ran mid 11’s at 122mph in a 3rd gen non stripped down camaro) I built the engine. After about 50k miles I decided I wanted to freshen it up. I sent the crank to have it turned. Eagle crank. Been spinning 7800 rpm on the regular for years and lots of miles. I get the crank back, immediately I notice there’s no radius anymore on any of the journals. Im like wtf, it’s just squared off. I call this place. Tell them. They say it’ll be ok. I’m just a dumb kid to them. But I tell them this motor has well over 500hp. Yea right I bet they thought. I insisted that it wasn’t going to fly but they blew me off. I should have bought a new crank. My fault. Because about 250 miles later, I had to pick of pieces of that motor off the street. So do you really think I want to give them $350 to **** up another motor for me? Hell to tha no. I’d rather take my chances with stock bolts. I’ll likely be better off.
None of my buddies have had to line hone or bore, they all use iron blocks. Being the picky *** I am, I didn’t want to add 100lbs to the front of my already heavy car. The aluminum block will likely distort easier than cast iron. Maybe this will make you guys see my point of view. Or not. But I tried lol.
11-19-2019, 04:18 PM
#68
why?
It was a consideration but I had this engine already tho. I did try and find a gen 4 at the local salvage yards. 140k mile one was $2000 plus core. 200K+ mile one was $1500 plus core. I had considered that. But being I could probably only get $500-$600 for my short block, it wasn’t worth it. For $2000 I could just build this motor stronger and more forgiving than a gen 4. I’m on pump gas. Don’t forget about that, I broke this motor probably because of that. From what I understand the ls1 flat tops are a little weaker than a dish 5.3 piston, but I wanted the extra insurance of a forged piston. And if I’m doing forged pistons I might as well do good rods. The route I’m taking, I think I’ll be better off.
I also considered buying a Texas speed short block and going pick it up from there since I’m in Louisiana. But then I don’t have the fun experience of building my own ****.
11-19-2019, 04:33 PM
#69
For those prices, I'd say your better off on the route you took. I bought a long block for $600. 6 of 8 pistons had bad skirt/cylinder wall wear. Luckily I was able to sell the heads off it for about $300. The guy that sold it to me went ghost. I still have some accessories I am trying to sell to recoupe a few more bucks. Block was still good with a hone. So, I'm using that to build it.
11-19-2019, 05:19 PM
#71
For those prices, I'd say your better off on the route you took. I bought a long block for $600. 6 of 8 pistons had bad skirt/cylinder wall wear. Luckily I was able to sell the heads off it for about $300. The guy that sold it to me went ghost. I still have some accessories I am trying to sell to recoupe a few more bucks. Block was still good with a hone. So, I'm using that to build it.
the more I think about it, the more I feel better about my choice. Without meaning to be a smartass, it’s easy for someone to say what they would do in their situation, but my situation is different. My car isn’t a stripped down car, it’s not a race car. It’s not a real easy car to work on and I don’t enjoy motor swapping. I want to do this one time. I’m not trying to set any records or compete. I’m not trying to make 1000whp. Heck 800 is probably not going to be any time soon for me. After this motor endeavor is done, I’ll have to eventually upgrade fuel system and drivetrain. So it’ll probably stay at the low power level I’m at right now. Maybe a tad more but at least doing the motor this way I’ll have room to grow and it’ll last.
yea you see some gen 4 stuff going really fast. But I wonder if they drive those cars as much as I drive mine and go on trips like I do? I know my buddy who went 8.90 on his sbe 5.3 doesn’t drive that car around. It gets trailered to the track and might drive it to store around the corner or to my house a few miles away. Plus that guy has way more free time than I do and swaps motors all the time. And yea it’s a race car. So saying that motor lasted for a year, two years etc.....isn’t near the same as it lasting in my car for the same time. One year of use that involves sitting in the garage for 98-99% of the time isn’t the same thing. I’m trying to build this to last. And by skipping the main bolts, I do t think I’m giving anything up at my power goals.
11-19-2019, 05:26 PM
#72
why?
It was a consideration but I had this engine already tho. I did try and find a gen 4 at the local salvage yards. 140k mile one was $2000 plus core. 200K+ mile one was $1500 plus core. I had considered that. But being I could probably only get $500-$600 for my short block, it wasn’t worth it. For $2000 I could just build this motor stronger and more forgiving than a gen 4. I’m on pump gas. Don’t forget about that, I broke this motor probably because of that. From what I understand the ls1 flat tops are a little weaker than a dish 5.3 piston, but I wanted the extra insurance of a forged piston. And if I’m doing forged pistons I might as well do good rods. The route I’m taking, I think I’ll be better off.
I also considered buying a Texas speed short block and going pick it up from there since I’m in Louisiana. But then I don’t have the fun experience of building my own ****.
It was a consideration but I had this engine already tho. I did try and find a gen 4 at the local salvage yards. 140k mile one was $2000 plus core. 200K+ mile one was $1500 plus core. I had considered that. But being I could probably only get $500-$600 for my short block, it wasn’t worth it. For $2000 I could just build this motor stronger and more forgiving than a gen 4. I’m on pump gas. Don’t forget about that, I broke this motor probably because of that. From what I understand the ls1 flat tops are a little weaker than a dish 5.3 piston, but I wanted the extra insurance of a forged piston. And if I’m doing forged pistons I might as well do good rods. The route I’m taking, I think I’ll be better off.
I also considered buying a Texas speed short block and going pick it up from there since I’m in Louisiana. But then I don’t have the fun experience of building my own ****.
11-19-2019, 05:45 PM
#73
yea you see some gen 4 stuff going really fast. But I wonder if they drive those cars as much as I drive mine and go on trips like I do? I know my buddy who went 8.90 on his sbe 5.3 doesn’t drive that car around. It gets trailered to the track and might drive it to store around the corner or to my house a few miles away. Plus that guy has way more free time than I do and swaps motors all the time. And yea it’s a race car. So saying that motor lasted for a year, two years etc.....isn’t near the same as it lasting in my car for the same time. One year of use that involves sitting in the garage for 98-99% of the time isn’t the same thing. I’m trying to build this to last. And by skipping the main bolts, I do t think I’m giving anything up at my power goals.
If I had to put a number on it I average about a year and a half beating the **** out of a SBE that average $500-600, solid return on investment to me. Even if it takes a weekend of my time every 18 months or so, the lack of stress from having a cheap engine vs an expensive one is priceless. Just keep a spare on the engine stand and mash the throttle!
Plus to date I havent damaged an engine beyond repair so after my beatings I get to sell it on to someone else and it continues another life. For instance my old SBE from years ago that bent a few rods is now a rod piston combo in the fastest manual CTSV, still taking licks! To me I have no complaints about how much life we get out of these cheap engines. I just try to keep them as stock as possible, only replace whats required, and always give it full send!
11-19-2019, 05:49 PM
#74
how long is a stock rod? Is a gen 4 rod 6.125? Me choosing to go with a 6.125 rod over a stock length rod is going to a longer rod vs stock, no? So me going with a longer after market rod is building a longer rod motor. Just like a 350 has a 5.7 rod and if you go with a 6”, it’s a longer rod. Iirc I had a choice of stock length rod for this motor too.
11-19-2019, 09:06 PM
#77
Restricted User
how long is a stock rod? Is a gen 4 rod 6.125? Me choosing to go with a 6.125 rod over a stock length rod is going to a longer rod vs stock, no? So me going with a longer after market rod is building a longer rod motor. Just like a 350 has a 5.7 rod and if you go with a 6”, it’s a longer rod. Iirc I had a choice of stock length rod for this motor too.
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freeky (12-08-2019)
11-20-2019, 10:33 AM
#79
LONGER https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-ls6098945
AND A KIT with stock length rods..https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-pr368102..Not sure what "Literally every single aftermarket rod is 6.125" means
I was sitting at a red light when I replied, so maybe I read it wrong? anyways....
this is a good read..https://www.hemmings.com/blog/articl...cal-advantage/
but if you dont want to read the whole thing...heres the answer to the question (quoted from article)
"The longer the piston dwell period at TDC, the more powerful and octane-tolerant the engine becomes. "
AND
"The rod-to-stroke ratio also impacts the dwell time of the piston at TDC, measured in crankshaft rotational degrees. With a longer dwell period, the piston will stay at TDC for more degrees of the crankshaft’s rotation before moving down toward BDC. The benefits of a longer dwell at TDC are myriad. When the piston is stationary, the combustion region stays small longer in the crankshaft’s arc of rotation, containing the flame as it tries to expand. Meanwhile, the cylinder pressure is rising, because the mechanically locked piston cannot move until the angle of the crankshaft allows it to.During this time, not only will the cylinder pressure rise, but by keeping the combustion region small longer in the crankshaft’s rotation, the odds of abnormal combustion occurring are reduced. The small, tight and confined flame does not allow as readily for a rogue ignition event to occur, quenching the possibility of detonation. Abnormal combustion can be qualified as either pre-ignition or post-ignition and is identified as anything other than the normal singular flame front initiated by the arcing of the spark plug."
paying attention to details like this allowed me to run almost 12:1 compression on a pump gas SBC 383 back in the 90's without having to retard timing.
11-20-2019, 11:00 AM
#80
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
I think the point is 99 percent of all forged motors in the LS world use 6.125” rods this is nothing new. I also had a GTO with 11.4 to 1 static on 91 octane that was a daily back in 2006 that ran faster than your turbo car did.
I think the point everyone is making is you make this sound like something that’s never been done before when it’s really not that uncommon.
I just had to throw that out about my old NA GTO to give you a hard time lol.
I think the point everyone is making is you make this sound like something that’s never been done before when it’s really not that uncommon.
I just had to throw that out about my old NA GTO to give you a hard time lol.