Johnny_M

Im curious to know if anyone else is seeing aftermarket trunion upgrade failures with the bushing or bearing type.
I have just over 4k miles on my Smith Bros. bronze bushings and they are wiped out. The bronze is embedded into the fulcrum too. There was no valve train noise. Push rods, rocker tips, valve stems all look good. I noticed the failure when I cut open the oil filter and seen the bronze and shinny steel in the filter element. I talked to BTR, where I purchased them, and he said they haven't heard of any failures. I talked to my Cam guy and he told me he has seen a lot of aftermarket upgrade failures and is not a fan of bronze trunion upgrades. He said he could count one hand the amount of stock rocker failures He has seen since the LS engine first came out. My cam guy suggests going back with the OEM LS3 rockers.
BTR has a second version of the trunion bearing upgrade. this one has inner races so the bearings don't ride directly on the fulcrum. So there must be failures out there with the first design.

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

yea I've seen some bushing woes coming up. ws6 store has a unique design. it's needles but they are encased so they can't fall apart and put needles everywhere

Jontall

Here we go again... Please post pictures of all the "wiped out" bushings and include your valve spring information.

dreadpirateroberts

iTrader: (1)

did you install the bushings in the rockers yourself or have BTR do it?

Johnny_M

I did them with the trunion tool from comp cams.

Johnny_M

pics coming tuesday when I take all apart

Bspeck82

I would just replace them with oem rockers or the ws6store upgraded rockers. You know, katech used the stock rockers in the C5R program...

Johnny_M

I'm learning. This is my 1st LS build. I never asked Geoff what rockers to run with his cam. I did the trunion upgrade while on the phone with BTR ordering other parts. The BTR salesman said I needed to do it if I'm running their .660 platinum springs. After I wiped them out I called Geoff and he told me to run OEM with no trunion upgrade. They work with all his hydraulic roller cams.
Pace Performance has a complete set with the bolts and pedestals for $219 I'm probably going to order them today.

Ls7colorado

iTrader: (3)

For $219 you can go to a pull a part and get the cylinder heads and rockers and still have $100 left over lol

dreadpirateroberts

iTrader: (1)

I think it's a a fluke, or install error when they were pressed in.

A lot of other folks run bronze bushings without an issue.

Have you considered going to roller rockers?

Johnny_M

I thought about it. I don't know if I would benefit from it. I'm only shifting at 7k.

LaBLKv6Z

iTrader: (13)

The links below are of OEM rocker arm failures. It just maybe the more aggressive aftermarket cam specs that cause the failures.

https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44564

https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/s....php?t=1020122

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...t-install.html

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-mile-car.html

Also be aware of none OE rocker arms as they are known to fail.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-going-on.html

G Atsma

I read the above linked threads, and it's actually non-conclusive.
Yeah the OEM rocker bearings can and do go out, but how often,considering even just those in a high performance engine?
If I were to replace trunnion bushings/bearings, the CHE gets my vote for bronze bushings due to them being free floating, and the WS6store for the fully caged needle bearings.
BUT the stock ones are still pretty good.

00pooterSS

iTrader: (40)

I've seen a hand full of threads about the stock rockers coming apart online. But you can find anything online.

And I've had thousands of LS powered vehicles in the shop over the years and never seen a rocker failure. I'm a tech that has always worked at shops that also do oil changes so we have multiple LS trucks and cars in and out of the shop every single day. I started in shops in 98 so I've been around since LS motors came out, and haven't seen a single rocker spit bearings. Not saying it doesn't happen.

I think the failure rate is blown out of proportion.

After keeping an eye on the rocker arm situation for years, I would go with the WS6store rockers or the Texas Speed rockers if I wasn't going to go to aluminum rollers. TSP has the stamped steel rollers and I dig that plan too.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

You hear about stock rocker and lifter failures far more than aftermarket for 2 reasons. 1) there are orders of magnitude more engines running the stock stuff than aftermarket. 2) when someone builds a motor most of the time they either want "peace of mind" or heard horror stories of OEM failures that moved them into the aftermarket. There is a place for them don't get me wrong....but it's well known why you hear about oem failures more than aftermarket.

dreadpirateroberts

iTrader: (1)

That is the thing. You only hear about failures. Nobody posts about how they've gone such and such miles without an issue.

Just taking a look at the type of wear the comp trunnions undergo is what sold me. They don't outright fail per say.

i'd rather have bronze bushings fail and make noise to tell me something is wrong than have comp trunnions quietly sending steel particulates through the engine as it wears for tens of thousands of miles. Or, if the valvetrain isn't agressive, just sticking with a stock rocker wouldn't bother me. Plenty of stock rockers make it a kazillion miles.

Johnny_M

I talked to John at the WS6 store. He is very knowledgeable.
I ordered the rpm speed rockers and TSP PAC .660 spring kit. I'm removing the Brazilian .660 springs. Those who know, know who's springs I'm talking about....

01CamaroSSTx

iTrader: (3)

I was gonna say get TSP's LS3 roller rockers arms and their PAC .660 spring kit and call it done.

Johnny_M

I talked TSP about the rocker arms. They are using comp cam style trunions. So I went with the ws6store / rpm speed sealed cartridge trunion Max Effort rockers instead of the TSP rockers.

Johnny_M

it's not just brass that wears the fulcrum flakes away too which is very hard steel. It's in my oil filter...