Pat G cams haul ***

 

Got me to 10s and 130+ traps na with 29+ mpg highway and 18-20 in town. Pretty tough combo to beat for overall performance and drivability.

Yours is doing pretty damn good to. How many cam only cars have you outran?


Well I'm not talking about a 10lb clutch. But i wish i was because the more weight off the crank the faster the car will accelerate.......end of story. Many things influence the drivability of a clutch. Like i said if you can drive a 4cyl with a 30lb clutch one should easily be able to drive a 8cyl with a 20lb clutch. If you can't then you suck to put it mildly.

And if a cam was the end all be all to a combo like some think then anyone with a decently installed cam only car should be able to easily beat my old bolt on ls6 times, the lbo ls1 4gen i helped a friend with that ran 11s w/o headers and my buddy phils c6 ls3 car that went faster with bolt ons and a light clutch vs h/c with a heavier clutch.

And if any of you really place drivability that high on your list the absolute best thing you can do for any car is leave that sob stock. So either drivability isn't that high on your list or acceleration isn't.

The reality is a cam should only be used to top off a already good combo. It's NOT gonna instantly cure your slow woes.

 

I agree if someone wants stock like drivability they should reconsider putting a cam in the car unless it’s conservative with the overlap. I hate to say it but from personal experience and the experience of some I know, I just think most so called pro tuners don’t have the capability or the time or care to really dial someone’s car in that’s cammed with a stock weight clutch let alone one that requires more finesse such as with a light setup. Even if I wanted a real light clutch setup, I couldn’t name one tuner around me that I have complete faith dialing the car in properly so I feel stuck. Kinda discouraging for folks like myself who don’t have the time or desire to learn the tuning software and dial the car in. At the end of the day, I’m just happy that my clutch now doesn’t squeal and shudder upon take off like my previous setup did granted that’s due to the material not weight.

 

You need to base your combo off of your cam usually.

 

Yea thats not a weight issue. Sizing the throw out bearing correctly with a good hydraulic release bearing, master cylinder size, clutch pedal/master pivot points, clutch pedal stop and tune can all help a small light clutch drive fine.

Just like stock??? No....but that just like stock driving clutch will get yanked by that small light clutch.


it's all one package in the end that needs to work together or none of it will turn out looking impressive or operate good.

One thing with out doubt adding around 10lb to your crank via ls7 clutch isn't honna make **** work better. It will become mechanical torque management tho.

 

I’m not building an all out race car, pretty much just a daily driver. And I got it for $230, flywheel, PP and clutch. Seems like a deal to me.

 

Not everyone wants to spend hundreds or thousands of hours in bolt on land to maximize everything nuance of the car. Some people could care less. They want to swap a cam, pick up 50-75whp and run a number. It's really not hard to understand. And if someone wants to have their cake and eat it to with drivability and power, they go boosted.....but then again this is a CAM THREAD.

 

Yes, it all needs to work together. You need to figure out everything and not just throw things together. Technically yes, my comment is incorrect. You will need to know CR, heads, manifold, and valvetrain as it all works together.

 

It's not about the deal. It's cheap for a reason.

It's about you just slowed your car down with it. There's more to a clutch than just something that engages your transmission. The weight of it also controls the rate at which the engine can accelerate. Think of it as tq management.....mechanical torque management. As tq has increased gm has increased the weight of the clutches to help control it. That means they slowed the engine via weight on the crank.

Another way to put this whole drivability crap to bed is to give you more info. Mustangs has had 40ish lb clutches in them for about 40yrs. Is there drivability issues with them? If not then it's definitely not about clutch weight like some will tell you.

If you think a extra 20lb won't slow you down vs them then grab up 40lb and run across your yard. Then 60lb and do the same. Time yourself. Now consider your only carrying it as dead weight. Then consider your engine has to rotate it thousands of times a minute.

The guy wants better acceleration. He thinks the way to get that done is a cam.........it's not in his case.

And stop exaggerating on my ****. You apparently don't know wtf you're talking or your boosted h/c **** woulda beat my bolt on crap decidedly. On top of that i thaew out 2 more bolt on set ups that either met or vastly exceeded his acceleration expectations. Fact is if you can't get a bolt on ls to the 11s on the stock cam you probably need to look elsewhere. The cam isn't holding it back.......or no one would ever get past the 12s on the stock cam.

I simply offered a different and better way to meet his goals. Which are pretty modest.

 

for sure. Most completely over look that a increase in compretion is typically needed with a cam. I don't really consider a stock ls6 intake very cam friendly either. Its already starving the motor foe air. Definitely better ways to spend $$ vs doing a cam in his case.

 

I truly feel sorry for you and you get the help you need at some point.

 

Definitely, compression definitely is needed. Heck I would add compression to anything.
If keeping NA, go FBO then heads/cam depending on budget. Then maybe a FAST 102/MSD.
If boost, just boost it lol.

Just a cam with no CR bump or any supporting mods like headers, I do agree. I would do a cam before a FAST intake though.

 

I've gotten the impression that lightweight flywheels on the street can be somewhat difficult to drive. My LS6 clutch worked fairly well on the street for 90,000 miles and would still be in the car if the slave hadn't gone out.

 

I have a Torquer V2 with an LS7 clutch and it drives great, it's not the best in stop & go traffic but it's manageable, I'm glad I didn't go any smaller. I definitely wish I had the money for a lighter clutch when I swapped it, but I didn't, so I'm sticking with that for now.

 

People certainly say that a lot... and it's not entirely incorrect, because they CAN be difficult, if you get one that's light enough... but the factory LS clutches are so heavy that you can go quite a bit lighter with no trouble.

My Mamo-lightened RPS BC2 is about 32 pounds, and it took a little while to get accustomed to it, because it's different. But it's not difficult.

 

Did everyone miss in the OP that he wants to autocross, does not plan to rev past 6500?

Lots of the cams mentioned in this thread are just coming into their own at 5200 and will honestly do best at 7300 rpm shift points.

The way I interpret what the OP is looking for is it needs to be strong in the midrange. That is mid 220s territory. And not much split if any. The benefit to larger cams is moving the rpm up. If you do not plan to rev, do not cam it to rev. Counterproductive.

 

Yeah I missed that.

 

Exactly what my first post suggested lol. Titan 2 would suit his needs perfectly.

 

Bmr did a build for an autox car. I'd focus on suspension tires, brakes and deeper oil and trans pan first. Power should come last.

 

Depends on several things i have mentioned not even related to the clutch.

32 lb isn't even light. That's nothing. That's easier than driving a stock honda as they have 30lb clutches with a 4cyl.

Even the 26lb rps in lazers vette is easy to drive. The 5.5 tilton i run is 16lb. My ex gf dd it in my camaro. I put 40k miles on that set up.

You have to drive it a little different but it can take off from a stop light or be in heavy traffic moving slow w/o ever touching the gas.

I didn't....another reason for a light clutch. No cam will match the responsiveness of a light clutch in that application......none.

Rev match down shifting is way better with light clutches as is getting off the corner.

agreed