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Kooks headers with speed engineering td x . they make pretty good stuff for the money.
Just about ready to put their entire system on my 03 2500hd as my exhaust is going bad after 17yrs lol.
Originally Posted by StealthFormula
You don't have to prove anything to me and I'm not lying about anything, was just going off what I thought I've read about your setup previously and I am open to being corrected. I thought you had a Turn One pump but it may of been the guy who had the bolt-on C5Z that put out real strong numbers. No big deal. You are the two people I know of who've done impressive things with just bolt-ons so if I confuse you two it's not intentional. I said it before, I'm looking to take a similar approach as you with my other car so I'm not knocking you, it would just be nice to know the whole deal so that people can make an informed decision rather than just being told to focus on others things than the cam. It's expensive and time consuming to reduce mass, friction, etc. in the various rotating assemblies of a vehicle as an example. I realize there's more to it than just that but you know what I mean.
I more than knew my intake tract was a restriction going into it. My order of operations at that time was let's just see what it does with a cam and headers for ***** and giggles and I'll address the constraints thereafter. I begun by going 90/90 then lost interest in doing anything else to it. I've got plenty of more opportunity areas but I'm happy with the results for what I got into it so I'm good until I get the bug again.
But for real, you should let us know what all you've done to achieve you numbers. Take the making an informed decisioon stuff out of the equation, it's simply valuable information to the community.
Op was wanting to go high 11s and do some track days or auto x. There is simply no better mod for that than a light clutch. Like a real light one...less than 20lb. It goes further than just acceleration gains or power. Rev matching downshifts happen quicker, messing up a rev matching down shift doesn't affect the car as much and nothing will help it get off the corner better. They also act much more positive and don't have this clutch pedal going away crap like most these aftermarket clutches do.....thus being easier on the trans.
Scotty had a 441whp bolt on ls6 c5z. He may have had a turn 1 idk.
Other than that some things are just better done before a cam. It's why i ask what the acceleration goals are. Sometimes a cam simply isn't needed and most times from what i can tell on here it's more of a hindrance than a help till the other **** is done. They can sound super cool.....but I've outran a pile of cool sounding **** over the years utilizing a stock cam. For the most part i don't think most aftermarket cams ever get tuned right.....darth will know more on that unfucking guys tunes. So the stock cam avoids that for op's acceleration goals.
As far as your stuff goes you have a great start. It could easily make more power than my bolt ons. But accelerating the car is another story.
Like i said a ported fast is gonna pick you up big as long there is no other intake restrictions. Roller rockers will put more mid range in it and slightly more top end. A ewp with a short belt set up will free up power and make the engine more responsive. A ati balancer would free up a few hp to. I can see those changes picking you up 30-40 whp. Which is likely about all you netted from the cam change. But those changes will really bump mid range and acceleration.
There's other **** that i left on the table. I didn't have a vacuum pump on it and it was still on pump gas. A vp is somewhere in the 6-12 range and e85 another 10~.
I did have my ps pump bypassed now that i think on it. Not to necessarily compare to other ls guys but to compare it to coyotahs since they have eps.
Dynos vary....we may very well make the same on the same dyno. I'm only using the data available to distinguish the 2.
My buddy phil and just went down this road on head cam stuff on his car. His car went 10.5 with bolt ons and 10.6 with h/c. There were other changes and there was changes that needed to be made for the h/c set up to work. He took out the light clutch for a still light rps. Gained 10lb on the crank. Removed the ewp and lost 30ish wtq. But gained 1000 usable rpm. But vettes max gear is 4.10 so it could never really utilize the extra rpm after the reduction in tq.
The whole car plays a part in it's acceleration not just a cam and more power.
Hio and i are on the same wave length. Dyno sheet of my car with the ls6 cam (very snappy cam with a broad power band) thru a 9" before tuning for the fast 102 was lean enough to be down on power. 93 oct. No EWP. Most boltons still had some mods i could have done and race gas
Kooks headers with speed engineering td x . they make pretty good stuff for the money.
.
I was assuming it was going to be a TD setup. But wanted to confirm
And agreed. I'm a speed engineering nut swinger myself. Just did a big post on their headers for the 14+ trucks (proof of nutswing)
They took all the awesome **** the best of the best do and put it in an affordable package. https://www.performancetrucks.net/fo...-556663/page2/
Kooks headers with speed engineering td x . they make pretty good stuff for the money.
Just about ready to put their entire system on my 03 2500hd as my exhaust is going bad after 17yrs lol.
Op was wanting to go high 11s and do some track days or auto x. There is simply no better mod for that than a light clutch. Like a real light one...less than 20lb. It goes further than just acceleration gains or power. Rev matching downshifts happen quicker, messing up a rev matching down shift doesn't affect the car as much and nothing will help it get off the corner better. They also act much more positive and don't have this clutch pedal going away crap like most these aftermarket clutches do.....thus being easier on the trans.
Scotty had a 441whp bolt on ls6 c5z. He may have had a turn 1 idk.
Other than that some things are just better done before a cam. It's why i ask what the acceleration goals are. Sometimes a cam simply isn't needed and most times from what i can tell on here it's more of a hindrance than a help till the other **** is done. They can sound super cool.....but I've outran a pile of cool sounding **** over the years utilizing a stock cam. For the most part i don't think most aftermarket cams ever get tuned right.....darth will know more on that unfucking guys tunes. So the stock cam avoids that for op's acceleration goals.
As far as your stuff goes you have a great start. It could easily make more power than my bolt ons. But accelerating the car is another story.
Like i said a ported fast is gonna pick you up big as long there is no other intake restrictions. Roller rockers will put more mid range in it and slightly more top end. A ewp with a short belt set up will free up power and make the engine more responsive. A ati balancer would free up a few hp to. I can see those changes picking you up 30-40 whp. Which is likely about all you netted from the cam change. But those changes will really bump mid range and acceleration.
There's other **** that i left on the table. I didn't have a vacuum pump on it and it was still on pump gas. A vp is somewhere in the 6-12 range and e85 another 10~.
I did have my ps pump bypassed now that i think on it. Not to necessarily compare to other ls guys but to compare it to coyotahs since they have eps.
Dynos vary....we may very well make the same on the same dyno. I'm only using the data available to distinguish the 2.
My buddy phil and just went down this road on head cam stuff on his car. His car went 10.5 with bolt ons and 10.6 with h/c. There were other changes and there was changes that needed to be made for the h/c set up to work. He took out the light clutch for a still light rps. Gained 10lb on the crank. Removed the ewp and lost 30ish wtq. But gained 1000 usable rpm. But vettes max gear is 4.10 so it could never really utilize the extra rpm after the reduction in tq.
The whole car plays a part in it's acceleration not just a cam and more power.
Speaking from personal experience I agree on the tuning aspect, it's rather unfortunate really.
I've got a nothing special 361rwhp LT1 f-body that looks stock as hell inside and out that I'm trying to push into the 10s (currently 11.30s at 120 spinning) and I'm jonesing to do it by addressing the things most people don't and that I didn't when I originally modded it as a teenager many years ago (i.e. via some of the above items) before I resort to replacing my smallish cam, putting better heads on it, etc. I'm not against the stuff you preach just depends on the situation for me that's all.
Sorry got the thread a little off track there, back to cams appropriate for the street and autocrossing.
I was assuming it was going to be a TD setup. But wanted to confirm
And agreed. I'm a speed engineering nut swinger myself. Just did a big post on their headers for the 14+ trucks (proof of nutswing)
They took all the awesome **** the best of the best do and put it in an affordable package. https://www.performancetrucks.net/fo...-556663/page2/
Damnit man. I've been seriously contemplating LTs for my 6.2 truck lately and have been researching options a bit while on the train to/from work. You're gonna cost me money.
Damnit man. I've been seriously contemplating LTs for my 6.2 truck lately and have been researching options a bit while on the train to/from work. You're gonna cost me money.
Well fortunately now it wont be much money. There's no reason to go with a more expensive setup than the speed engineering. Scroll that post if you haven't already.
Hio and i are on the same wave length. Dyno sheet of my car with the ls6 cam (very snappy cam with a broad power band) thru a 9" before tuning for the fast 102 was lean enough to be down on power. 93 oct. No EWP. Most boltons still had some mods i could have done and race gas
Yup we right in the same area backing up each others results. You've done great with that thing and i love seeing the progress you make. I wish i coulda ran once more with bolt ons.
Originally Posted by 00pooterSS
I was assuming it was going to be a TD setup. But wanted to confirm
And agreed. I'm a speed engineering nut swinger myself. Just did a big post on their headers for the 14+ trucks (proof of nutswing)
They took all the awesome **** the best of the best do and put it in an affordable package. https://www.performancetrucks.net/fo...-556663/page2/
Se ftw
Originally Posted by StealthFormula
Speaking from personal experience I agree on the tuning aspect, it's rather unfortunate really.
I've got a nothing special 361rwhp LT1 f-body that looks stock as hell inside and out that I'm trying to push into the 10s (currently 11.30s at 120 spinning) and I'm jonesing to do it by addressing the things most people don't and that I didn't when I originally modded it as a teenager many years ago (i.e. via some of the above items) before I resort to replacing my smallish cam, putting better heads on it, etc. I'm not against the stuff you preach just depends on the situation for me that's all.
Sorry got the thread a little off track there, back to cams appropriate for the street and autocrossing.
I think a fella learns alot from doing the little things that most don't but resort to throwing a cam in because the interwebs make it seem like the car will be a rocket afterwards.
I had a stock clutch which was light I purchased a slightly stiffer one which is rated to handle more than twice the torque for $900, I think the twin plate ones are still light but there about $1800 over here in Australia. I'll be surprised if I'm slower as I won't be afraid to use the new one properly.
I'm impressed with all your cam results here is a VCM 11 cam in an LS1 dynoed in (KWs 293.7 - 394 rwhp), which I already have a tune for, the green line is with add ons and stock cam the top line is with cam and decked .030" why I like this is it shows almost no power loss between 1000 and 2000 (10 nm?) and big increase up top at 394 rwhp. Look at the sudden jump in torque at 2200 rpm.
Looks like a decent cam. You didn't over cam it so that's a good start if you're gonna cam it.
You can get into a triple disc 7.25 quarter master for about $700 with a button flywheel. Then i would recommend tilton 6000 series adjustable hydraulic release bearing. Gm did the hydraulic line a few different ways so you'll have to come up with that on your own i typically convert everything to AN line sometimes by cutting the metal line and using a tube nut, sleeve and flaring it.
Spec makes a nice complete package for about 1300-1400 range.
I had a stock clutch which was light I purchased a slightly stiffer one which is rated to handle more than twice the torque for $900, I think the twin plate ones are still light but there about $1800 over here in Australia. I'll be surprised if I'm slower as I won't be afraid to use the new one properly.
I'm impressed with all your cam results here is a VCM 11 cam in an LS1 dynoed in (KWs 293.7 - 394 rwhp), which I already have a tune for, the green line is with add ons and stock cam the top line is with cam and decked .030" why I like this is it shows almost no power loss between 1000 and 2000 (10 nm?) and big increase up top at 394 rwhp. Look at the sudden jump in torque at 2200 rpm.
Very nice looking curve!! That will outrun lots of over cammed cars.
Here are 6 different cams dyno tested in an LS1 done about 17 years ago, notice the torque gained at low rpm is almost directly proportional to the HP lost at high rpm and vice versa.
On the street from 0-60 mph I doubt there would be any real difference between any of them in an M6 3:46.
Take a look at the Summit Pro Ls Sum-8715 Ghost Cam. 222/233 115 + 3 and .600/.575 lift. Please use our Cam calculator to break things down into individual events when comparing cams. In particular The Ghost has -1 intake opening, 43 intake closing, 55 exhaust opening and -2 exhaust closing. Excellent power and torque and lobes designed to carry well past 7k when you feel the confidence to do so. Let us know if you have questions on why we recommend these events to match your needs. We will follow up.
A Tfs-16918-16 beehive spring would be a great match.
Also, not that you want to do it now; but since the subject of clutches comes up, you will probably be most happy with a 45lb combined clutch flywheel combination such is had with a McLeod Rst. Autocross requires slippability not only in accel but in decel at times. A trustworthy dance partner takes a lot of drama out of making a run. Not just the durability part, but the consistent launch and character.
The money saved will buy you deeper gears which will make the car better at applying power and playing catch-up from a slide.
Last edited by Summitracing; 01-31-2020 at 04:35 PM.
On the street for the most part the power I enjoy most is when I drop back a gear and plant the foot a little & the power is instant, the best cam for that in the graph above is the 212/212 by a considerable margin (look at the blue line torque at 2250 rpm compared to the others). For most people this where the fun is 95% of the time on the road the other 5% or less of the time it is a fast dash from stop lights.
Racing is different ! Yes I use mine for getting ice cream !!! 🐸
On the street for the most part the power I enjoy most is when I drop back a gear and plant the foot a little & the power is instant, the best cam for that in the graph above is the 212/212 by a considerable margin (look at the green line torque at 2250 rpm compared to the others). For most people this where the fun is 95% of the time on the road the other 5% or less of the time it is a fast dash from stop lights.
Racing is different, yes I use mine for getting ice cream !!! 🐸
You, good sir- May want to look at our Sum-8719 and Sum-8720 grinds.
Thanks I purchased a Summit cam a few months ago, in the last 18 months I've had cams from 5 different suppliers for my LS1 I ended up selling the Summit cam as I changed direction with my build (again!) the finish on the Summit cam was far superior to the others I had. Trouble in Australia once I pay the exchange rate it ends up being cheaper to buy locally.
Timls1, I don't know what cams you have owned but have you looked at the TSP 212/218 .600/.600 112+2? Lots of low down and a responsive cam. Available to Aus on Ebay for a reasonable price. I don't know if this uses the standard or the he better TSP lobes though, you may need to special order for that. If you want more lope, that can be tuned in.
Although, you could probably step up to the TSP 216/220 .600/.600 112+2 with the lighter weight of your car. Either should be good for getting ice cream, especially if the local shop is in a built up area where you aren't going to be smashing up to 7000rpm
01-29-2020, 12:15 PM
