Difference in cams
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 234
Likes: 16
From: South dakota
Difference in cams Pretty much got the tune figured out and I'm not to sure I liked the cam/converter combination i have now. I was looking at some cams and came across cleetus McFarland "bald eagle" 227*/234*, .600/.600 111LSA. I noticed in the description a minimum 2800 stall . I currently have Tick Performance "SNS" torqueMAX Stage 2 V2 Camshaft for LS2 Engines
Standard Lobes: 231/235 | .625"/.605" | LSA111+2 which suggests 3600+ stall and 3.42 gearing.
Currently I don't care much for the off line (street driving) of the stall..4000 I currently have. Would I benefit from the cam I mentioned and run a 2800 stall? And why would I be able to run a 2800 converter with the cleetus McFarland cam? Seems pretty close to what I have now
Standard Lobes: 231/235 | .625"/.605" | LSA111+2 which suggests 3600+ stall and 3.42 gearing.
Currently I don't care much for the off line (street driving) of the stall..4000 I currently have. Would I benefit from the cam I mentioned and run a 2800 stall? And why would I be able to run a 2800 converter with the cleetus McFarland cam? Seems pretty close to what I have now
The thing is everyone has vastly different preferences. So any recommendations with cam and stall are loosely based around preferences.
The cams you are looking at would benefit from at LEAST a 2800 stall.
But in my opinion, and most people that have F body cars, EVEN WITH STOCK CAMS, want a 3600 to 4000 stall. Most that do a 2800-3000 end up taking it out and going to a 3600-4000
It's just a minimum recommendation and it's somewhat loosely based.
Then there's the fact that converters can feel so much differently from each other, even with the same stall speeds. You may have a loose 4000, a tight 2800 would suck all the ***.
I would start with the stall and leave the cam for now.
I would try a yank ss3600 if you don't like the SS4000
I will say though I ran a Yank SS3800 for quite a while on a stock cam bolt on car and loved it. I had a really really tight 3400 Yank that would only stall to around 2600 or so and it made the car a complete dog. It wasn't the converters fault it was mine, I picked a stall made for a lot more power than I was making so it was really tight.
The looseness is a trade off for acceleration though. Those looser ones give you harder launches and better shift extension
The cams you are looking at would benefit from at LEAST a 2800 stall.
But in my opinion, and most people that have F body cars, EVEN WITH STOCK CAMS, want a 3600 to 4000 stall. Most that do a 2800-3000 end up taking it out and going to a 3600-4000
It's just a minimum recommendation and it's somewhat loosely based.
Then there's the fact that converters can feel so much differently from each other, even with the same stall speeds. You may have a loose 4000, a tight 2800 would suck all the ***.
I would start with the stall and leave the cam for now.
I would try a yank ss3600 if you don't like the SS4000
I will say though I ran a Yank SS3800 for quite a while on a stock cam bolt on car and loved it. I had a really really tight 3400 Yank that would only stall to around 2600 or so and it made the car a complete dog. It wasn't the converters fault it was mine, I picked a stall made for a lot more power than I was making so it was really tight.
The looseness is a trade off for acceleration though. Those looser ones give you harder launches and better shift extension
Then there's also the fact there could be something wrong with your converter or trans making if feel looser than it should
Have you had this stall since new? Did you ever like it if so?
Have you had this stall since new? Did you ever like it if so?
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 234
Likes: 16
From: South dakota
Thanks for replying, 3.23 and just shy of 26"tire (315/35-17) . The convert is second hand. Convert is dated 11/14. I was wondering if I just happen to have a loose convert as well... or possibly bad.. i hope its not the transmission.. RPM transmission only has maybe 50k and didn't have any issues prior to converter swap. Maybe i will put the yank 2800 i have now, Also thought about getting a cost on restalling the SS4000. I definitely do not care for what I have going on now.
Last edited by 98Zeric; Nov 24, 2020 at 05:34 PM.
Get rid of the 3.23's. A shorter gear will make the car faster, and it will slip the converter a little less too. You already have short tires so you can't do much there.
I would suspect the converter if it's second hand, big time.
After over 10 years on this forum I've seen second hand converters bite people more than they don't. And you should ALWAYS suspect used converters, there's rarely a reason to sell a converter, that's good. A lot of them go up if they've been overpowered or if the trans took a **** and filled up the converter.
My 3800 was not tight, but jesus was it fun. If you hate your setup send the converter to yank for inspection. If Dave says it's all good tell him it's too loose for you and y'all come up with a plan. If the converter is ****, you may like a proper 4000.
I had 3.73 gears and a Yank SS3800 that I bought brand new and had built just for me. My car would roll away from a red light and keep up with traffic at 1200 rpm roughly. It was slipping a lot at that rpm but it would roll out normally. If it takes 2000 or more to get the car rolling out there's a problem.
It's damn near impossible to tell you about the converter over the internet. I'll try though if you want to discuss it.
The best thing I can tell you is to find a reputable speed shop that is real familiar with f bodies with 4k stalls and let them drive it, or see if someone local to you has a car with a similar stall and compare (a yank ss series preferably but almost any 3600-4000 stall car can work for at least an idea). You really have to feel and drive the car to see if it's too loose or not.
I would suspect the converter if it's second hand, big time.
After over 10 years on this forum I've seen second hand converters bite people more than they don't. And you should ALWAYS suspect used converters, there's rarely a reason to sell a converter, that's good. A lot of them go up if they've been overpowered or if the trans took a **** and filled up the converter.
My 3800 was not tight, but jesus was it fun. If you hate your setup send the converter to yank for inspection. If Dave says it's all good tell him it's too loose for you and y'all come up with a plan. If the converter is ****, you may like a proper 4000.
I had 3.73 gears and a Yank SS3800 that I bought brand new and had built just for me. My car would roll away from a red light and keep up with traffic at 1200 rpm roughly. It was slipping a lot at that rpm but it would roll out normally. If it takes 2000 or more to get the car rolling out there's a problem.
It's damn near impossible to tell you about the converter over the internet. I'll try though if you want to discuss it.
The best thing I can tell you is to find a reputable speed shop that is real familiar with f bodies with 4k stalls and let them drive it, or see if someone local to you has a car with a similar stall and compare (a yank ss series preferably but almost any 3600-4000 stall car can work for at least an idea). You really have to feel and drive the car to see if it's too loose or not.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 234
Likes: 16
From: South dakota
Get rid of the 3.23's. A shorter gear will make the car faster, and it will slip the converter a little less too. You already have short tires so you can't do much there.
I would suspect the converter if it's second hand, big time.
After over 10 years on this forum I've seen second hand converters bite people more than they don't. And you should ALWAYS suspect used converters, there's rarely a reason to sell a converter, that's good. A lot of them go up if they've been overpowered or if the trans took a **** and filled up the converter.
My 3800 was not tight, but jesus was it fun. If you hate your setup send the converter to yank for inspection. If Dave says it's all good tell him it's too loose for you and y'all come up with a plan. If the converter is ****, you may like a proper 4000.
I had 3.73 gears and a Yank SS3800 that I bought brand new and had built just for me. My car would roll away from a red light and keep up with traffic at 1200 rpm roughly. It was slipping a lot at that rpm but it would roll out normally. If it takes 2000 or more to get the car rolling out there's a problem.
It's damn near impossible to tell you about the converter over the internet. I'll try though if you want to discuss it.
The best thing I can tell you is to find a reputable speed shop that is real familiar with f bodies with 4k stalls and let them drive it, or see if someone local to you has a car with a similar stall and compare (a yank ss series preferably but almost any 3600-4000 stall car can work for at least an idea). You really have to feel and drive the car to see if it's too loose or not.
I would suspect the converter if it's second hand, big time.
After over 10 years on this forum I've seen second hand converters bite people more than they don't. And you should ALWAYS suspect used converters, there's rarely a reason to sell a converter, that's good. A lot of them go up if they've been overpowered or if the trans took a **** and filled up the converter.
My 3800 was not tight, but jesus was it fun. If you hate your setup send the converter to yank for inspection. If Dave says it's all good tell him it's too loose for you and y'all come up with a plan. If the converter is ****, you may like a proper 4000.
I had 3.73 gears and a Yank SS3800 that I bought brand new and had built just for me. My car would roll away from a red light and keep up with traffic at 1200 rpm roughly. It was slipping a lot at that rpm but it would roll out normally. If it takes 2000 or more to get the car rolling out there's a problem.
It's damn near impossible to tell you about the converter over the internet. I'll try though if you want to discuss it.
The best thing I can tell you is to find a reputable speed shop that is real familiar with f bodies with 4k stalls and let them drive it, or see if someone local to you has a car with a similar stall and compare (a yank ss series preferably but almost any 3600-4000 stall car can work for at least an idea). You really have to feel and drive the car to see if it's too loose or not.
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Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 234
Likes: 16
From: South dakota
I've read a few articles on stall converters but I do have some questions that none of the write ups I read really mention. Maybe you can help clarify, and add anything else that could help educate me.. will having a higher stall effect shift firmness of 1st-2nd-3rd? How much could the transmission tune effect driveability at lower speed?.. could alot of my issues stem from the tune?
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 317
Likes: 52
From: Charleston, SC
One thing you might want to think about is your exhaust. I think the noise of a loud exhaust really plays a big part in how you perceive your car's drivability. My camaro with a SS3600, 2.73s and magnaflow exhaust is more tolerable than my old TA that had a SS3200, 3.23s and a GMMG exhaust. A transmission tune could help by getting the converter to lockup sooner under part throttle and improving shift firmness.
Pretty much got the tune figured out and I'm not to sure I liked the cam/converter combination i have now. I was looking at some cams and came across cleetus McFarland "bald eagle" 227*/234*, .600/.600 111LSA. I noticed in the description a minimum 2800 stall . I currently have Tick Performance "SNS" torqueMAX Stage 2 V2 Camshaft for LS2 Engines
Standard Lobes: 231/235 | .625"/.605" | LSA111+2 which suggests 3600+ stall and 3.42 gearing.
Currently I don't care much for the off line (street driving) of the stall..4000 I currently have. Would I benefit from the cam I mentioned and run a 2800 stall? And why would I be able to run a 2800 converter with the cleetus McFarland cam? Seems pretty close to what I have now
Standard Lobes: 231/235 | .625"/.605" | LSA111+2 which suggests 3600+ stall and 3.42 gearing.
Currently I don't care much for the off line (street driving) of the stall..4000 I currently have. Would I benefit from the cam I mentioned and run a 2800 stall? And why would I be able to run a 2800 converter with the cleetus McFarland cam? Seems pretty close to what I have now
Questions i have are how much time was spent tuning the car? Were the shift points for part throttle changed? How much effort was put into part throttle tuning?
My strategy would be
Make sure its tuned correctly. If it is look more into the converter
Try to figure out what converter you have, if it turns out the converter is the problem start there
I would call a place like Yank converters, he is very easy to talk to in my experience, answers questions, knows all the specs of his converters and will tell you what they are. He was more concerned about sellling me the right converter then selling me the more expensive one i thought i needed. There are other places to but i can only base my recommendation on my experience with yank and the cars ive driven with his products.
Have the new converter installed and if you still arent satisfied its time to look into gears. Would need to know what you use the car for, primarily street, street strip or primarily strip, max effort street car etc. Would be easier if you weighed it and established a baseline at the drag strip if you're into that, also a dyno sheet and where the rev limiter is.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 234
Likes: 16
From: South dakota
As others said the converter, gearing and tune are the major factors. I wouldn't change cams, it sounds like the converter is the problem. If you could find out what the converter is that would really help. Even just telling us what color it is and what it cost might help narrow it down.
Questions i have are how much time was spent tuning the car? Were the shift points for part throttle changed? How much effort was put into part throttle tuning?
My strategy would be
Make sure its tuned correctly. If it is look more into the converter
Try to figure out what converter you have, if it turns out the converter is the problem start there
I would call a place like Yank converters, he is very easy to talk to in my experience, answers questions, knows all the specs of his converters and will tell you what they are. He was more concerned about sellling me the right converter then selling me the more expensive one i thought i needed. There are other places to but i can only base my recommendation on my experience with yank and the cars ive driven with his products.
Have the new converter installed and if you still arent satisfied its time to look into gears. Would need to know what you use the car for, primarily street, street strip or primarily strip, max effort street car etc. Would be easier if you weighed it and established a baseline at the drag strip if you're into that, also a dyno sheet and where the rev limiter is.
Questions i have are how much time was spent tuning the car? Were the shift points for part throttle changed? How much effort was put into part throttle tuning?
My strategy would be
Make sure its tuned correctly. If it is look more into the converter
Try to figure out what converter you have, if it turns out the converter is the problem start there
I would call a place like Yank converters, he is very easy to talk to in my experience, answers questions, knows all the specs of his converters and will tell you what they are. He was more concerned about sellling me the right converter then selling me the more expensive one i thought i needed. There are other places to but i can only base my recommendation on my experience with yank and the cars ive driven with his products.
Have the new converter installed and if you still arent satisfied its time to look into gears. Would need to know what you use the car for, primarily street, street strip or primarily strip, max effort street car etc. Would be easier if you weighed it and established a baseline at the drag strip if you're into that, also a dyno sheet and where the rev limiter is.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 234
Likes: 16
From: South dakota
One thing you might want to think about is your exhaust. I think the noise of a loud exhaust really plays a big part in how you perceive your car's drivability. My camaro with a SS3600, 2.73s and magnaflow exhaust is more tolerable than my old TA that had a SS3200, 3.23s and a GMMG exhaust. A transmission tune could help by getting the converter to lockup sooner under part throttle and improving shift firmness.
I've read a few articles on stall converters but I do have some questions that none of the write ups I read really mention. Maybe you can help clarify, and add anything else that could help educate me.. will having a higher stall effect shift firmness of 1st-2nd-3rd? How much could the transmission tune effect driveability at lower speed?.. could alot of my issues stem from the tune?
Taking it and power braking it to see where it spins the tires or stalls is a good idea. Put the shifter in second also and power brake it. My 3800 would actually stall around 4000 stalling it in second.
One thing you might want to think about is your exhaust. I think the noise of a loud exhaust really plays a big part in how you perceive your car's drivability. My camaro with a SS3600, 2.73s and magnaflow exhaust is more tolerable than my old TA that had a SS3200, 3.23s and a GMMG exhaust. A transmission tune could help by getting the converter to lockup sooner under part throttle and improving shift firmness.
As others said the converter, gearing and tune are the major factors. I wouldn't change cams, it sounds like the converter is the problem. If you could find out what the converter is that would really help. Even just telling us what color it is and what it cost might help narrow it down.
Questions i have are how much time was spent tuning the car? Were the shift points for part throttle changed? How much effort was put into part throttle tuning?
My strategy would be
Make sure its tuned correctly. If it is look more into the converter
Try to figure out what converter you have, if it turns out the converter is the problem start there
I would call a place like Yank converters, he is very easy to talk to in my experience, answers questions, knows all the specs of his converters and will tell you what they are. He was more concerned about sellling me the right converter then selling me the more expensive one i thought i needed. There are other places to but i can only base my recommendation on my experience with yank and the cars ive driven with his products.
Have the new converter installed and if you still arent satisfied its time to look into gears. Would need to know what you use the car for, primarily street, street strip or primarily strip, max effort street car etc. Would be easier if you weighed it and established a baseline at the drag strip if you're into that, also a dyno sheet and where the rev limiter is.
Questions i have are how much time was spent tuning the car? Were the shift points for part throttle changed? How much effort was put into part throttle tuning?
My strategy would be
Make sure its tuned correctly. If it is look more into the converter
Try to figure out what converter you have, if it turns out the converter is the problem start there
I would call a place like Yank converters, he is very easy to talk to in my experience, answers questions, knows all the specs of his converters and will tell you what they are. He was more concerned about sellling me the right converter then selling me the more expensive one i thought i needed. There are other places to but i can only base my recommendation on my experience with yank and the cars ive driven with his products.
Have the new converter installed and if you still arent satisfied its time to look into gears. Would need to know what you use the car for, primarily street, street strip or primarily strip, max effort street car etc. Would be easier if you weighed it and established a baseline at the drag strip if you're into that, also a dyno sheet and where the rev limiter is.
His sig says SS4000 so I assume that's what is in the car. But it's an assumption
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 234
Likes: 16
From: South dakota
BTW, nice car slp iroc-z, also 00pooterSS nice cannons, .45? 1911?
I went for a ride, the car will move on its own at a turtles pace. leaving from a stop the RPM climbs approximately 500rpm then the car will move. with the brakes applied, on the throttle the RPM climbs to approximately 3000RPM before the tires break loose. At a speed of 10-15MPH (this was suggested by dave from yank) at 3000 RPM the tires break loose as the car accelerates.. at 25-30MPH I attempted the same test but the same thing happen however I was unable to check RPM because the car went side way for a bit
. Dave also requested I log RPM drop (shift extension) but I am not sure if that is something I logged. if you all would look over my logs, maybe you will see this before I send anything to dave.
based on my findings I believe I was relying more on sound and thinking I have a issue then actual data. Ibut please share your thoughts or ideas. also I made a change to the tune by enabling shift lock. this change was made for run 2,3.
I went for a ride, the car will move on its own at a turtles pace. leaving from a stop the RPM climbs approximately 500rpm then the car will move. with the brakes applied, on the throttle the RPM climbs to approximately 3000RPM before the tires break loose. At a speed of 10-15MPH (this was suggested by dave from yank) at 3000 RPM the tires break loose as the car accelerates.. at 25-30MPH I attempted the same test but the same thing happen however I was unable to check RPM because the car went side way for a bit
. Dave also requested I log RPM drop (shift extension) but I am not sure if that is something I logged. if you all would look over my logs, maybe you will see this before I send anything to dave.based on my findings I believe I was relying more on sound and thinking I have a issue then actual data. Ibut please share your thoughts or ideas. also I made a change to the tune by enabling shift lock. this change was made for run 2,3.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 234
Likes: 16
From: South dakota
I looked over the data I logged and I came to the conclusion that I have no idea what I'm looking at lol. The series I have setup in the 5th group I used from a youtube video I found (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE) the person did not explain how to use this info and I can't figure it out.
I can't open the files, and I don't tune so I don't know if I would know what I'm looking at.
As for my pic, unfortunately that's not my pic. An ex of mine saw the photo though once and got mad and said "why didn't you use a pic of me???". I said "I only have 1 gun" lol. She looked like that at the time. Not now hahaha.
Anyway, it's starting to sound like maybe you've gotten something in your head about the converter or just not really loving the high stall life. I say that because best I can tell it sounds like it's working ok.
Is this something you've had for a long time and rarely drive? Or do you drive it daily? If daily and you feel something is off, you're probably right. If it's a toy you play with here and there it may be that everything is fine but for some reason you may feel it isn't. Which could happen if you're questioning everything due to something changing recently.
On the shift extension. Hammer it through second and third and see how far the rpms drop on the shift. It's been so long I don't recall what my drops were. I feel like they were around 3k drops especially on the 1-2 shift, with the STOCK converter, and dropped closer to 2k rpm drops on shifts after the converter...
As for my pic, unfortunately that's not my pic. An ex of mine saw the photo though once and got mad and said "why didn't you use a pic of me???". I said "I only have 1 gun" lol. She looked like that at the time. Not now hahaha.
Anyway, it's starting to sound like maybe you've gotten something in your head about the converter or just not really loving the high stall life. I say that because best I can tell it sounds like it's working ok.
Is this something you've had for a long time and rarely drive? Or do you drive it daily? If daily and you feel something is off, you're probably right. If it's a toy you play with here and there it may be that everything is fine but for some reason you may feel it isn't. Which could happen if you're questioning everything due to something changing recently.
On the shift extension. Hammer it through second and third and see how far the rpms drop on the shift. It's been so long I don't recall what my drops were. I feel like they were around 3k drops especially on the 1-2 shift, with the STOCK converter, and dropped closer to 2k rpm drops on shifts after the converter...
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 478
Pretty much got the tune figured out and I'm not to sure I liked the cam/converter combination i have now. I was looking at some cams and came across cleetus McFarland "bald eagle" 227*/234*, .600/.600 111LSA. I noticed in the description a minimum 2800 stall . I currently have Tick Performance "SNS" torqueMAX Stage 2 V2 Camshaft for LS2 Engines
Standard Lobes: 231/235 | .625"/.605" | LSA111+2 which suggests 3600+ stall and 3.42 gearing.
Currently I don't care much for the off line (street driving) of the stall..4000 I currently have. Would I benefit from the cam I mentioned and run a 2800 stall? And why would I be able to run a 2800 converter with the cleetus McFarland cam? Seems pretty close to what I have now
Standard Lobes: 231/235 | .625"/.605" | LSA111+2 which suggests 3600+ stall and 3.42 gearing.
Currently I don't care much for the off line (street driving) of the stall..4000 I currently have. Would I benefit from the cam I mentioned and run a 2800 stall? And why would I be able to run a 2800 converter with the cleetus McFarland cam? Seems pretty close to what I have now
A 4.8 with a given cam might need a 5000 stall to perform optimally, where-as a 454 LSX with the same cam could choke out at 5000 RPM and start losing power.
The same goes with recommended gearing, where a 4.11 gear would be optimal for a car thats running a 28" tire, and absolutely abysmal for a car running a 22" tire.
So if you see a cam recommending a certain stall speed converter, its merely a recommendation. It is very likely not optimal, nor will it ever be a requirement.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 234
Likes: 16
From: South dakota
I can't open the files, and I don't tune so I don't know if I would know what I'm looking at.
As for my pic, unfortunately that's not my pic. An ex of mine saw the photo though once and got mad and said "why didn't you use a pic of me???". I said "I only have 1 gun" lol. She looked like that at the time. Not now hahaha.
Anyway, it's starting to sound like maybe you've gotten something in your head about the converter or just not really loving the high stall life. I say that because best I can tell it sounds like it's working ok.
Is this something you've had for a long time and rarely drive? Or do you drive it daily? If daily and you feel something is off, you're probably right. If it's a toy you play with here and there it may be that everything is fine but for some reason you may feel it isn't. Which could happen if you're questioning everything due to something changing recently.
On the shift extension. Hammer it through second and third and see how far the rpms drop on the shift. It's been so long I don't recall what my drops were. I feel like they were around 3k drops especially on the 1-2 shift, with the STOCK converter, and dropped closer to 2k rpm drops on shifts after the converter...
As for my pic, unfortunately that's not my pic. An ex of mine saw the photo though once and got mad and said "why didn't you use a pic of me???". I said "I only have 1 gun" lol. She looked like that at the time. Not now hahaha.
Anyway, it's starting to sound like maybe you've gotten something in your head about the converter or just not really loving the high stall life. I say that because best I can tell it sounds like it's working ok.
Is this something you've had for a long time and rarely drive? Or do you drive it daily? If daily and you feel something is off, you're probably right. If it's a toy you play with here and there it may be that everything is fine but for some reason you may feel it isn't. Which could happen if you're questioning everything due to something changing recently.
On the shift extension. Hammer it through second and third and see how far the rpms drop on the shift. It's been so long I don't recall what my drops were. I feel like they were around 3k drops especially on the 1-2 shift, with the STOCK converter, and dropped closer to 2k rpm drops on shifts after the converter...
