Much difference in these cams?
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Joined: Mar 2011
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From: Waterford, MI
Much difference in these cams? I'm looking at the Brian Tooley Truck Norris, Truck Stage 2 or the Summit 8728R1 cam. There's $50-90 difference, depending. Is there enough of a difference in the BTR cams compared to the Summit cam? It's in an 01 Yukon Denali, LQ4 with 799 heads, long tubes. It will be pretty much all on the street, so low/mid RPMs are more important than high. Stock converter until I decide (or have to) replace the trans.
BTR Truck Norris - 212 int./22X exh. Duration, 0.552 in./0.552 in. Lift, 107 LSA $389
BTR Truck Stage 2 - V2, 212 int./218 exh. Duration, 0.553 in./0.553 in. Lift, 111 LSA $349
Summit - Truck Torkinator High Lift. 212/218 Dur., 110+3, .600/.585 Lift $299
BTR Truck Norris - 212 int./22X exh. Duration, 0.552 in./0.552 in. Lift, 107 LSA $389
BTR Truck Stage 2 - V2, 212 int./218 exh. Duration, 0.553 in./0.553 in. Lift, 111 LSA $349
Summit - Truck Torkinator High Lift. 212/218 Dur., 110+3, .600/.585 Lift $299
Speaking from experience, I have the truck Norris cam and it makes power down low were the other cams will not due to the tighter LSA.... Huge difference?? probably not since those are still truck cams your comparing too, but if you doing it might as well get all you can in my opinion.
And im a summit cam kinda guy but the 107 LSA has me sold for my heavy truck. My setup is also an lq4, 799 heads, long tubes, stock converter.
And im a summit cam kinda guy but the 107 LSA has me sold for my heavy truck. My setup is also an lq4, 799 heads, long tubes, stock converter.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 324
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From: Waterford, MI
Speaking from experience, I have the truck Norris cam and it makes power down low were the other cams will not due to the tighter LSA.... Huge difference?? probably not since those are still truck cams your comparing too, but if you doing it might as well get all you can in my opinion.
And im a summit cam kinda guy but the 107 LSA has me sold for my heavy truck. My setup is also an lq4, 799 heads, long tubes, stock converter.
And im a summit cam kinda guy but the 107 LSA has me sold for my heavy truck. My setup is also an lq4, 799 heads, long tubes, stock converter.
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From: Carnation, WA
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From: Franconia, PA
Stumbled on this thread via Google search. Btr Truck norris (212/224, .552, .552, 107.5+1.5) makes better power than the btr stage 2 (and even the stage 3) everywhere. I'm kinda surprised that the stage 3 at 218/224, .552, .552, 110+0 doesn't do better at the top but dyno graphs show it does not. My guess is that the 107.5 lsa gives the 212 intake duration max torque and the 224 exhaust duration helps it extend as it revs. That's the only thing that would explain how it would beat or equal the 218/224 110 stage 3 up high.
And the TN only has 2 degree extra overlap so it seems like a no brainer to me over btr stage 3.
TN does a little better than summits big torkinator down low. They are the same up high. Big difference between the two is overlap (Big tork is -5 and TN is 3). Sp you will get better manners and gas mileage from the big tork, but you need .600 lift springs to run it.
Personally I'm going with the TN because I will be running stock lifters and it will be easier on the valvetrain with the ls2/3/6 springs. I can also run stock pushrods whereas you wouldn't want to do that with a .600 lift cam and springs.
Chopacabra (214/222, .550, .550, 108+2) is basically equal in performance to TN and also can use ls6 springs and stock pushrods.
And the TN only has 2 degree extra overlap so it seems like a no brainer to me over btr stage 3.
TN does a little better than summits big torkinator down low. They are the same up high. Big difference between the two is overlap (Big tork is -5 and TN is 3). Sp you will get better manners and gas mileage from the big tork, but you need .600 lift springs to run it.
Personally I'm going with the TN because I will be running stock lifters and it will be easier on the valvetrain with the ls2/3/6 springs. I can also run stock pushrods whereas you wouldn't want to do that with a .600 lift cam and springs.
Chopacabra (214/222, .550, .550, 108+2) is basically equal in performance to TN and also can use ls6 springs and stock pushrods.
Last edited by Abs; Mar 2, 2025 at 03:27 PM.
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Watch closely from the 7:30 mark. He shows in detail, the TN is making exactly 365ft-lb @ 2600rpm (no data point @ 2500rpm). Now fast forward to about 9:40. We see the TN data point on the graph, and when he adds the BT to the graph, it starts ~ 369ft-lbs @ 2500rpm around 369ft-lbs and around 367ft-lbs @ 2600rpm (just above the TN data point). Minuscule, but reversed.
This was on a stock cathedral port. If run with rectangular ports or ported cathedrals, the BT would have an advantage with it's higher lift.
In addition to driveability, the -5* overlap of the BT will be better for:
- Use with exhaust manifolds or shorty headers (if not using long tubes)
- Catalyst efficiency if you're trying to pass emissions.
Last edited by 68Formula; Mar 2, 2025 at 05:11 PM.
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From: Franconia, PA
Actually for the record, although in one of the videos RH verbally states the TN makes more low end than the BT, he has it reversed.
Watch closely from the 7:30 mark. He shows in detail, the TN is making exactly 365ft-lb @ 2600rpm (no data point @ 2500rpm). Now fast forward to about 9:40. We see the TN data point on the graph, and when he adds the BT to the graph, it starts ~ 369ft-lbs @ 2500rpm around 369ft-lbs and around 367ft-lbs @ 2600rpm (just above the TN data point). Minuscule, but reversed.
Watch closely from the 7:30 mark. He shows in detail, the TN is making exactly 365ft-lb @ 2600rpm (no data point @ 2500rpm). Now fast forward to about 9:40. We see the TN data point on the graph, and when he adds the BT to the graph, it starts ~ 369ft-lbs @ 2500rpm around 369ft-lbs and around 367ft-lbs @ 2600rpm (just above the TN data point). Minuscule, but reversed.
So I think it's fair to say that TN and BT are almost exact, and it comes down to overlap and what you want to use for springs.
With respect to a heads upgrade, aren't good heads better almost everywhere? So it could possibly help the cams equally even though one is .550 and the other is .600, especially considering the different lobe separations and overlap?
Last edited by Abs; Mar 2, 2025 at 07:09 PM.
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@68Formula another concern I had about summit cams is how much power they are able to provide vs other manufacturers. Like this example or with how good the ghost cam is. A month or so ago, I asked you for a recommendation for my street ls1 gto and we more or less settled on the 8720 (218/227, .600, .600, 112+2) based on the stock 3.46 gears on the car and how it will be used (not raced).
I have read some comments from users of summit cams that their valvetrains can be noisy. I've seen some others with cams like the 8720 blow up their engine. These reports are likely anecdotal, but many of the pro ls .600 lift lobes are what would be labeled as aggressive. Summit says they are valvetrain friendly, but a 49 difference between .050 and .006 durations is definitely a steep lobe and likely explains their awesome power. I just worry about using these lobes on my 115k mile ls1 with stock lifters.
The btr truck cams have a 50 degree difference but only .552 lift. And tooley tests his cams on a spintron for valve float, hard closes, bounce, etc. I think the 8728, 8720, or 8715 cams would be awesome, but I would worry about my valvetrain with them. That's what sent me down the road of the TN.
I have read some comments from users of summit cams that their valvetrains can be noisy. I've seen some others with cams like the 8720 blow up their engine. These reports are likely anecdotal, but many of the pro ls .600 lift lobes are what would be labeled as aggressive. Summit says they are valvetrain friendly, but a 49 difference between .050 and .006 durations is definitely a steep lobe and likely explains their awesome power. I just worry about using these lobes on my 115k mile ls1 with stock lifters.
The btr truck cams have a 50 degree difference but only .552 lift. And tooley tests his cams on a spintron for valve float, hard closes, bounce, etc. I think the 8728, 8720, or 8715 cams would be awesome, but I would worry about my valvetrain with them. That's what sent me down the road of the TN.
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I haven't seen much on SR as far as causing issues. Lot of things can contribute to noise, especially when multiple things are being changed simultaneously like lifters, proper pushrod length, (especially with milled heads, changed gasket thickness), valvespring selection and setup, etc.. The intensity is really not that more aggressive, considering majority of cams manufacturers are 50-55. The ones in mid-40s would be questionable in a daily driver. And it's designed to make most power below 6500rpm, so with proper spring and preload, the higher lift should not cause valve float within expected working range. Summit is using lift to achieve peak hp and low torque, BTRs approach is tighter LSA, and really long exhaust duration for increased overlap, while keeping the lift moderate.
The reason why I mentioned porting, is the stock cathedral flow curves start to flatten around .550/.570 intake/exhaust for 243s. When you port cathedrals they'll usually carry up to .600" before they start to flatten and reach stall. So yes, you'll see improvements on both, with greater increase on the higher lift camshaft as it's able to take advantage of the significant peak flow of the ported head. Rectangulars peak round .600" lift as well, so I would expect on a 6.0/6.2 rec port there would be a bigger delta as well.
The reason why I mentioned porting, is the stock cathedral flow curves start to flatten around .550/.570 intake/exhaust for 243s. When you port cathedrals they'll usually carry up to .600" before they start to flatten and reach stall. So yes, you'll see improvements on both, with greater increase on the higher lift camshaft as it's able to take advantage of the significant peak flow of the ported head. Rectangulars peak round .600" lift as well, so I would expect on a 6.0/6.2 rec port there would be a bigger delta as well.
Last edited by 68Formula; Jul 3, 2025 at 06:28 AM.
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I haven't seen much on SR as far as causing issues. Lot of things can contribute to noise, especially when multiple things are being changed simultaneously like lifters, proper pushrod length, (especially with milled heads, changed gasket thickness), valvespring selection and setup, etc.. The intensity is really not that more aggressive, considering majority of cams manufacturers are 50-55. The ones in mid-40s would be questionable in a daily driver. And it's designed to make most power below 6500rpm, so with proper spring and preload, the higher lift should not cause valve float within expected working range. Summit is using lift to achieve peak hp and low torque, BTRs approach is tighter SLA, and really long exhaust duration for increased overlap, while keeping the lift moderate.
The reason why I mentioned porting, is the stock cathedral flow curves start to flatten around .550/.570 intake/exhaust for 243s. When you port cathedrals they'll usually carry up to .600" before they start to flatten and reach stall. So yes, you'll see improvements on both, with greater increase on the higher lift camshaft as it's able to take advantage of the significant peak flow of the ported head. Rectangulars peak round .600" lift as well, so I would expect on a 6.0/6.2 rec port there would be a bigger delta as well.
The reason why I mentioned porting, is the stock cathedral flow curves start to flatten around .550/.570 intake/exhaust for 243s. When you port cathedrals they'll usually carry up to .600" before they start to flatten and reach stall. So yes, you'll see improvements on both, with greater increase on the higher lift camshaft as it's able to take advantage of the significant peak flow of the ported head. Rectangulars peak round .600" lift as well, so I would expect on a 6.0/6.2 rec port there would be a bigger delta as well.
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Joined: May 2023
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From: Franconia, PA
I haven't seen much on SR as far as causing issues. Lot of things can contribute to noise, especially when multiple things are being changed simultaneously like lifters, proper pushrod length, (especially with milled heads, changed gasket thickness), valvespring selection and setup, etc.. The intensity is really not that more aggressive, considering majority of cams manufacturers are 50-55. The ones in mid-40s would be questionable in a daily driver.
