Hey folks, I’m building a stroker 5.3 and just got around to installing my crank. I was following the 2carpros 5.3 build series for guidance as this is my first motor build, and have my crank installed, torqued and rotating very smoothly without any slop, and some very very slight end play. I have another friend who’s already built an LS twice and he mentioned that the procedure they show in the video for setting thrust is different than what’s referenced in the manual he’s followed, and the video doesn’t seem to show them checking end play. I’d like to make sure I don’t screw this motor up so I’m looking to get some advice on what the proper procedure is for torquing main caps and setting thrust, and if checking end play is required. I’m using a 5.3 block with a TSP forged crankshaft and an ARP stud kit.

 

I think checking end play is good even if just for knowledge's sake.
I would measure it even if nothing else is done. Better to know than to keep wondering....

 

I check end play first with the crank in and no caps. Note the number.
Install the middle cap with the bolts finger tight, pry the crank forward, push the middle cap up against the thrust surface, tighten the middle cap bolts fairly tight.
Recheck end play, it should be the same. Hint, it won't be more!
If not the same, say within .001", figure out why.
I believe getting it right is critical

 

A couple of different procedures for checking thrust, but what’s important is what the actual thrust is after caps are torqued. I set mine up with .007 minimum for an automatic trans build. I’ll do .003-.005 for a manual trans build.

 

When you say minimum, are you meaning you’re shooting for a range higher than 0.007, or that 0.007 would be the most amount of play you’d want?

Checked play today and hit 0.005, but went ahead and redid the torque procedure just to be safe. After resetting thrust and retorquing, I hit 0.005 again so at least it’s consistent. I checked cam end play cause I was there and it hit 0.005 as well which I think is within spec

 

Yes, .007 minimum with an automatic. .007-.015 is what I’m after. I’ve seen too many thrust bearings wiped out from the thrust being too tight, with an automatic. The converter, unless your going to go billet, swells easily in a performance build, and pushes forward on the crank. Before all the builders left this site, it was common knowledge. Now, no one talks about this much.

 

A couple of questions for you then since I’m at 0.005 end play and gonna be doing an automatic

For a billet converter, are you talking something like this from banks? Or is there somebody else out there that would be better to look at?

https://official.bankspower.com/tech...-diesel-tough/

Can you get a billet converter for a 4L80E, and what’s the end play if you’re going billet - does it drop down to that manual range?

How would you increase the end play to get it out to 0.007 - machine the side of the main caps and block, grind down the bearing, go with a bearing with a thinner wall maybe?

 

No need to go billet if you can adjust your setup, although a properly built billet converter will be more accurate and is easier to tune to. Adjusting the thrust is simple, yet time consuming. You’ll need a surface plate…think granite countertop or a nice thick piece of glass. Use an 800 grit large piece of sandpaper. Apply a liberal amount of thin oil directly on the sandpaper, such as WD-40 or Marvel Mystety oil, or you can use a cutting oil that you’d use to drill with…anything thin, no engine oil or anything thick. Take the thrust bearings and lay them on their side. Don’t use much pressure, just lightly make figure 8’s with the bearing. Keep your hand centered on the bearing to keep it evenly weighted. Do one side for maybe 10-15 seconds, and then do the other. The trick is making both bearings as close to the same size as possible. Your only trying to remove .005-.008…maybe .010 here, so don’t go crazy. Light pressure in a figure 8 motion. Surface plate needs to be as flat and precise as possible. I use a thick piece of glass that’s very flat, on my bench to set this up.
Do this to both the upper half and lower half. Clean them off with some brake cleaner, Or in a clean parts washer if you have one. Don’t just wipe them down, because you’ll never get all the grit off with a towel…they need sprayed or dunked in a parts washer. Brake clean is great for this. Set the bearings back in the saddles, and set your crank back in. Oil it as though your assembling it. Re-check your thrust setting after final torque. Re-do as necessary to get to where it needs to be. Takes some time, but is really simple to do. Take your time. Be gentle setting crank back in as always.
​​​​​​….edit…you’ll cut through the outer coating into copper. This is fine. Don’t be alarmed.

 

I actually just moved into a place with granite countertops, so my bathroom counter just became a temporary workbench. Would a pair of calipers do well for this to see how much is being taken off? What would be a good target to get to for end play - 0.007 is minimum, is there an optimal thrust clearance for an auto setup?

Additionally, looks like I have some more trans specs to look into for this. However, if I upgrade to a billet converter later on, is the bigger end play going to be an issue with the billet converter? I guess if it is then I’ll just change bearings, but I’d like to know do I can plan ahead

 

A caliper might work for this, but remember that your dealing with an overall number, so .004 off one side and .004 off the other would be .008 total. I’ve never tried that personally. I simply mock it up multiple times. I’ll mock the overall engine build up countless times before final assembly. There’s so many numbers that you have to check everywhere. I have said this statement here on tech multiple times previously but I’ll say it again…you have to build the engine many times before final assembly to do it right.
.007 would be a good “middle of the road” number for any auto setup. Will not be an issue later for whatever converter you choose.

 

0.007 total endplay or additional off from what it is now?

 

See Post #6....

 

Yes, .007 total endplay will be fine for what your doing. I’ve seen guys go .018 for nitrous builds.

 

I agree. I had an engine that ended up with .028" end play!! So much wear on the thrust surface that the 3 oil retaining grooves were barely visible!! It also started throwing a P0336 Crank sensor code. I was told if you're going to run an auto trans car (in my case, it was a C5 Vette) hard, say 240° coolant temps for extended periods, before you race, you should:
Get the entire drivetrain up to normal temps. Then, using a lift, or ramps, quickly get under the car while everything is hot (expanded). Locate the pinch bolt, and loosen it.
Then quickly tighten.
This puts the splines in the expanded (hot) position, without putting the tremendous pressure that pushes on the thrust bearing. I believe Kurt Urban Performance has some sort of jig that you can buy, and it allows you to precisely drill into the main oil feed galleys from the wear face of the thrust bearing, which will then be pressure fed with oil. RonSSnova has told me there is an aftermarket flex plate/starter ring gear that has the female spline area beefed up considerably, which eliminates the need for a pinch bolt........