When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Its goes back to the list of potential problems I made earlier plus more. A 25yr old car probably has leaks, issues with O2 sensors, maf, fuel pressure etc... and then taking a 25yr old motor/ transmission/ rearend to redline over and over just opens your self up for more headaches. Then if the cars has issues and you cant tune it 100% then your the bad guy.
Why dont shop and tuners tune on or work on the old LT1 anymore? Same exact reasons.
I mean most of those problems would be covered by the waiver of liability you sign when you drop the car off to be tuned. Running into issues with sensors or weak fuel pumps is still on the owner..either pay the shop to address those problems and replace the necessary parts or take the car back and figure it out. Had this same problem last year with a fresh 383 short block from thompson motorsports..attempted to have it dyno tuned twice and kept running into a misfire problem, tried replacing plugs, wires, and coils to no avail, but the shop and tuner was cool and let me keep it there and work on it myself in the mean time. Ended up being a warped reluctor wheel in the end. But the guy that doesn't want to bother with tuning it simply because its a 20 year old car probably isn't the tuner you want anyway. The guy I used last is phenomenal and keeps the car at a minimum 3-4 days to get the driveability right and work out all the little idle issues before giving the car back.
I mean most of those problems would be covered by the waiver of liability you sign when you drop the car off to be tuned. Running into issues with sensors or weak fuel pumps is still on the owner..either pay the shop to address those problems and replace the necessary parts or take the car back and figure it out. Had this same problem last year with a fresh 383 short block from thompson motorsports..attempted to have it dyno tuned twice and kept running into a misfire problem, tried replacing plugs, wires, and coils to no avail, but the shop and tuner was cool and let me keep it there and work on it myself in the mean time. Ended up being a warped reluctor wheel in the end. But the guy that doesn't want to bother with tuning it simply because its a 20 year old car probably isn't the tuner you want anyway. The guy I used last is phenomenal and keeps the car at a minimum 3-4 days to get the driveability right and work out all the little idle issues before giving the car back.
eh, its the same as shops only tuning holley ecus. its more of a business decision than a skill one. they can be more efficient with cookie cutter cars than one-offs and if there are enough of that type of work to keep them busy why waste their time on something that doesnt have as good of a margin?
Book labor is hit or miss. I've talked to guys who could do a 3 hour job in 45 minutes because they figured out a shortcut. Doing heads and cam and other stuff should be being quoted as an estimate and not a firm price. If you lose out on extra parts or labor, it's because you didn't communicate that with the customer up front.
I mean most of those problems would be covered by the waiver of liability you sign when you drop the car off to be tuned. Running into issues with sensors or weak fuel pumps is still on the owner..either pay the shop to address those problems and replace the necessary parts or take the car back and figure it out. Had this same problem last year with a fresh 383 short block from thompson motorsports..attempted to have it dyno tuned twice and kept running into a misfire problem, tried replacing plugs, wires, and coils to no avail, but the shop and tuner was cool and let me keep it there and work on it myself in the mean time. Ended up being a warped reluctor wheel in the end. But the guy that doesn't want to bother with tuning it simply because its a 20 year old car probably isn't the tuner you want anyway. The guy I used last is phenomenal and keeps the car at a minimum 3-4 days to get the driveability right and work out all the little idle issues before giving the car back.
Its not an issue about being liable legally, its more a custom not being realistic issue. Of course there are always exceptions there are still some nice 4th gens out there but they arent the norm. We did a couple last year. Thats not 20 yr engine, odds are you didnt install new engine and not replace all the other necessary parts and maintenance items.....Saying because a tuner wont tune a 20+yr car he isnt good is pretty far out there. I would bet money if you call Lingenfelter, LMR, Pat G, Peitz Performance, HHP, AMP, Redline, or any sponsors on the right and ask if they will tune a 99 camaro most will say no or ask you a ton of questions before possibly excepting the tune. Doesnt have anything to deal with the tuners ability and more of a business decision. Call any shop and see if the will tune an old LT1 car, 99.99% stopped, doesnt mean they dont know how all of a sudden.
eh, its the same as shops only tuning holley ecus. its more of a business decision than a skill one. they can be more efficient with cookie cutter cars than one-offs and if there are enough of that type of work to keep them busy why waste their time on something that doesnt have as good of a margin?
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, it makes sense. I suppose I saw most performance shops serving a very small portion of the population and would be less likely to turn away business. I suppose these days people can be selective on the work they want to take on. Make hay while the sun shines.
Its not an issue about being liable legally, its more a custom not being realistic issue. Of course there are always exceptions there are still some nice 4th gens out there but they arent the norm. We did a couple last year. Thats not 20 yr engine, odds are you didnt install new engine and not replace all the other necessary parts and maintenance items.....Saying because a tuner wont tune a 20+yr car he isnt good is pretty far out there. I would bet money if you call Lingenfelter, LMR, Pat G, Peitz Performance, HHP, AMP, Redline, or any sponsors on the right and ask if they will tune a 99 camaro most will say no or ask you a ton of questions before possibly excepting the tune. Doesnt have anything to deal with the tuners ability and more of a business decision. Call any shop and see if the will tune an old LT1 car, 99.99% stopped, doesnt mean they dont know how all of a sudden.
I kind of think that someone refusing to work on a 20 year old car is kind of dumb. There are guys who are building cars from rusted out hulks of junk and they even add fuel injection. Someone who inspects a vehicle and offers an estimate and indicates the possible complications are true automotive professionals. Some of these places are cookie cutter stage X parts replacers and they'll be gone in 5 or 6 years. Heck, how many sponsors are left here from 20 years ago. Some of those big names in 2003 are gone.
Some people have built a reputation for a particular platform such as the old LT1. That's their niche. Having a niche isn't a bad thing.
Y’all aren’t listening at all.
shops don’t hate old ****.
new **** is easier to work on and pays better and there’s enough of it they don’t need to work on old ****.
If you can keep your schedule full with ‘easier’ work why take in harder work?
business is business. I don’t get all upset nobody makes parts for 73 chevelles. That would be a dumb business move, almost everyone that likes these cars live in trailer parks
Y’all aren’t listening at all.
shops don’t hate old ****.
new **** is easier to work on and pays better and there’s enough of it they don’t need to work on old ****.
If you can keep your schedule full with ‘easier’ work why take in harder work?
business is business. I don’t get all upset nobody makes parts for 73 chevelles. That would be a dumb business move, almost everyone that likes these cars live in trailer parks
Now you're just being dumb. 2nd gens are hot. There's a ton of money to be made working on second gen cars. 3rd gens are the current forgotten phase cars but they are getting some play recently. As I said, if companies are in cookie cutter mode they'll be busy for a few years and once the hype subsides they'll fade away. Most of the sponsors still offer support and parts for the 4th gen.
Labor rate is the same regardless of the year of the car. Some people are just too lazy to remove a rusty nut.
Lloyd Elliot is an example of a guy who has a niche market. Everyone ignores the LT1, he's been working on them forever.
Last edited by wannafbody; Jul 22, 2023 at 10:01 AM.
time is money, money is time. some guys work too damn hard, they just wanna pay the labor, totally understandable. If you love the car, do what you want, and pay what you want. Again it's the labor that is the factor, you are going to pay $100-200 per hour depending on your location IE Kalifornia VS Tennessee.
Power VS money you will ALWAYS come out ahead with boost. Many guys stick NA with the LS but turbo or SC is going to make you the huge horsepower. Nitrous will be the cheapest HP and can be SAFE if you are in the 100-150 shot range and the proper equipment.
I definitely understand why some shops would be reluctant to install or even attempt to tune some of the set ups folks come up with for 4th Gen's. Sheet metal Chinese intake manifold, random Amazon generic Bezos cam, bottom dollar fleabay 102 mm throttle body on cable TB drive car, toss in stock valve train with stock pushrods, reuse 100,000! mile roller lifters, random set of heads to keep costs low - - seems like recipe for pain and disappointment.
If the budget is enough to let the shop select parts and do a know package it maybe a different story. If it's their established heads & cam package for a 4th Gen in excellent mechanical condition, they may be more receptive.
Heck Lingenfelter Performance Engineering still offers their LS1 383 package as of today per website for C5's...
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; Aug 1, 2023 at 12:06 PM.
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Slideshow: From wobbling harmonic balancers to failed EBCMs, these are the issues that define long-term C5 ownership and what repairs typically involve.
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Slideshow: A modern Camaro transformed into a retro icon, this limited-run "Bandit" build blends nostalgia with brute force in a way few revivals manage.
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Slideshow: Cadillac didn't just crash the high-performance luxury vehicle party, it showed up loud, supercharged, and occasionally a little unhinged...
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Slideshow: A one-off sports car that looks like a vintage Italian exotic-but hides a C6 Corvette underneath-just sold for the price of a new mid-engine Corvette.
