The one and only time I'll ask: Which Cam?
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The one and only time I'll ask: Which Cam? I had a former student contact me about his project car. He's putting an LS in BMW 3 series. 349ci, 11.25:1, ported 706 heads, stock style flattop pistons, no valve relief ,LS6 intake, AR5, 3.91 rear end and 26" tires. Estimated 2900lb +/- 50.
Looking for 485+ flywheel and consistent 1/8 mile times while still being able drive across town and show off occasionally.
He's based his engine build on a project we've been working on at school, but I had to tell him our cam wouldn't work, but the Summit Stage 3 or the Comp 54-459-11 were fairly close.
Are there better choices for cam that keeps peak RPM reasonable and makes the most out of the modest heads and is compatible with the lack of valve relief and occasional street use?
Looking for 485+ flywheel and consistent 1/8 mile times while still being able drive across town and show off occasionally.
He's based his engine build on a project we've been working on at school, but I had to tell him our cam wouldn't work, but the Summit Stage 3 or the Comp 54-459-11 were fairly close.
Are there better choices for cam that keeps peak RPM reasonable and makes the most out of the modest heads and is compatible with the lack of valve relief and occasional street use?
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whichever cam you pick, buy the next size smaller in the catalog.
for a little while the trend in ls cams was to go small like the triple 12. lately they have just gotten bigger and bigger. im a fan of the smaller cams.
for a little while the trend in ls cams was to go small like the triple 12. lately they have just gotten bigger and bigger. im a fan of the smaller cams.
I had a former student contact me about his project car. He's putting an LS in BMW 3 series. 349ci, 11.25:1, ported 706 heads, stock style flattop pistons, no valve relief ,LS6 intake, AR5, 3.91 rear end and 26" tires. Estimated 2900lb +/- 50.
Looking for 485+ flywheel and consistent 1/8 mile times while still being able drive across town and show off occasionally.
He's based his engine build on a project we've been working on at school, but I had to tell him our cam wouldn't work, but the Summit Stage 3 or the Comp 54-459-11 were fairly close.
Are there better choices for cam that keeps peak RPM reasonable and makes the most out of the modest heads and is compatible with the lack of valve relief and occasional street use?
Looking for 485+ flywheel and consistent 1/8 mile times while still being able drive across town and show off occasionally.
He's based his engine build on a project we've been working on at school, but I had to tell him our cam wouldn't work, but the Summit Stage 3 or the Comp 54-459-11 were fairly close.
Are there better choices for cam that keeps peak RPM reasonable and makes the most out of the modest heads and is compatible with the lack of valve relief and occasional street use?
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Teching In
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The transmission is an AR5, 5 speed evidently it it prized by kids for a very low first gear that makes turning tires into smoke as efficient as possible.
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Teching In
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Cam spec so people don't have to look them up:
Summit Stage 3 8708R1: 232/242 113+3 .600/.600
Summit Stage 3 Extra Clearance 8710R1: 230/242 113+3 .625/.605
Comp 54-459-11: 231/239 113 .617/.624
Summit Stage 3 8708R1: 232/242 113+3 .600/.600
Summit Stage 3 Extra Clearance 8710R1: 230/242 113+3 .625/.605
Comp 54-459-11: 231/239 113 .617/.624
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All too Large IMHO for goals & parts.
My first suggestion would be the Cam Motion LS1 Titan 4 227*/232* 113*+ 3*
Should make ~500 crank hp with decently ported heads and supporting cast. .
Will tune & drive much better with more ptr clearance as well (still gotta measure).
Even the Titan 5, 232*/238* 113* + 3* would be a better choice.
Just my .02
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On The Tree
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From: Lee's Summit, MO
I'm getting cam and longtubes installed in March. BTR Red Hot camshaft 221/240 .619/.617 113 LSA with new lifters and BTR double springs. American Racing Longtubes 1-7/8 with catted Y-pipe.
After 22 years of ownership I'm finally doing it.
After 22 years of ownership I'm finally doing it.
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Funny, I'm usually one of the more conservative people when it comes to recommendations. :-) I almost recommended the Titan 4 as well, along with the Summit 8707R1 226/238 113+3 .600/.600. But worried it'd miss the hp goal. Even the 6L with 706 head and TBSS Cammotion tested it on came up a little short; so the smaller displacement and somewhat restrictive 78mm throttle body (at that power level) would likely hold it back further.
Think with the AR5 transmission gearing, 3.91 gear, 2900lbs, and 11.25 compression it should be driveable (properly tuned) with the slightly larger 8710R1; and the Titan 5 would be a good choice as well assuming PTV is okay. Those would be the largest though.
Think with the AR5 transmission gearing, 3.91 gear, 2900lbs, and 11.25 compression it should be driveable (properly tuned) with the slightly larger 8710R1; and the Titan 5 would be a good choice as well assuming PTV is okay. Those would be the largest though.
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Funny, I'm usually one of the more conservative people when it comes to recommendations. :-) I almost recommended the Titan 4 as well, along with the Summit 8707R1 226/238 113+3 .600/.600. But worried it'd miss the hp goal. Even the 6L with 706 head and TBSS Cammotion tested it on came up a little short.
That kind of cam is in top end of I personally wouldn't mind so much to occasionally drive on the street. Not sure about every day.
But we aren't talking about what I would do. We're talking about a 20 year old with a good job and no responsibilities that wants a toy and probably will never drive the car farther than the parking lot where the kids are meeting on Saturday night and home again. It certainly doesn't need to be transportation.
The Titan 5 looks like a solid choice. SDR has a 232/236 614/614 114+2 cam that looks in the ballpark as well, although it seems a little soft.
This is that awkward area where driveability goes away quickly but you really aren't getting the full benefits of a properly big cam.
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I'm thinking something around the Titan 5 to BTR stage 3 range. Especially with him being a younger kid, and with gear ratios like that, it will be pretty tame.
I daily drove my Camaro for years with a Torquer V2 cam with 9* of overlap, it drove really well. Never once wished I had gone smaller with the cam.
I daily drove my Camaro for years with a Torquer V2 cam with 9* of overlap, it drove really well. Never once wished I had gone smaller with the cam.
desired because theyre cheap/strong, the first gear ratio is a downside especially in something that will have no problem turning tires in 1/2/3 gear anyway
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No first hand experience, just what I gathered with cursory investigation. First gear doesn't seem useful.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. Summit 8715 ghost cam. 222/233. Drives good and makes damn good power. Mavn made 455rwhp with a 5.7 with ported heads and fast intake and this cam. I saw him go 11.10 with my own eyes.
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OP,
Stab the SUM-8707R1 or the SUM-8710R1 in there and tell the young fella to save money for extra sets of tires
It's got compression and gearing going for it. Plus it's a young gearhead. He's not going to care about a choppy idle or a bit of character. He's probably seeking that sort of thing
Stab the SUM-8707R1 or the SUM-8710R1 in there and tell the young fella to save money for extra sets of tires
It's got compression and gearing going for it. Plus it's a young gearhead. He's not going to care about a choppy idle or a bit of character. He's probably seeking that sort of thing
Instead of random opinions... Id look at what typical ls builds make with each of those cams. And shoot for the one that made the most on an SBE motor. The Comp 54-459-11 is tried and true and done to death on Holdners builds. It's right up there with some od the highest power numbers I've seen out of SBE motors. I really like the MS3 and MS4 camshafts as well they squeak out a bit more. TSP dyno's most of their cams on their inhouse dyno with the same SBE motor for comparison. Basically has headers/cam on factory motors, and thats it. So you get a great comparison. I'd be semi worried about PTV with some of the larger cams with a 706 head. They have the kits now that you can quickly fly cut the pistons as needed. I just did this to a 5.3. Worked great.
I saw 420whp a few times with cam only c5's and the ms4. 485 might be a pretty hefty goal. you are basically going up 1 compression point. That's worth like 3-4% na HP typically. Thats only like 16hp on a 400hp motor. But if they were ported really well it may come close. I'd guess more like 440.
I saw 420whp a few times with cam only c5's and the ms4. 485 might be a pretty hefty goal. you are basically going up 1 compression point. That's worth like 3-4% na HP typically. Thats only like 16hp on a 400hp motor. But if they were ported really well it may come close. I'd guess more like 440.
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I saw 420whp a few times with cam only c5's and the ms4. 485 might be a pretty hefty goal. you are basically going up 1 compression point. That's worth like 3-4% na HP typically. Thats only like 16hp on a 400hp motor. But if they were ported really well it may come close. I'd guess more like 440.