93LS1RX7

iTrader: (8)

340-350 intake is the common number at .600 lift? Show me all these 340+ heads.

More like 320-330

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Show me too....

(I think he meant to say the most common advertised figures....)

I will now zip up my flamesuit and wait to be bashed and called "negative".

Tony M.

PS....While I'm sure there ARE a few 340-350CFM + players (albeit at more than .600 lift), their not in the hands of the average Joe..., nor are they available at average Joe prices. Custom valves, steeper valve angles, serious time on the bench, and all the trimmings are needed to geniunely generate that type of airflow in a "production style" casting....meaning non-C5R, LS7, etc. I just LOVE the type of flow figures that are so non-chalantly thrown around the Internet....Reality is an all together different story.

jrp

iTrader: (16)

there's gotta be a blue pill in internet form. or maybe people just willingly take the red pill

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

amen Tony.

BrentB@TEA

Actually we can get an out of the box AFR 225 head to flow in the mid to upper 330 range also with a valve change, but the mid lift numbers get worse.
one thing to note is our Stg 3 head has several different chambers depending upon what bore you have. The AFR 225 head has a 4.125 bore chamber isn't that correct Tony?

Wet 1

iTrader: (4)

So how do these heads compare to a set of AFR's out of the box (205 & 225).

BUYAMERICAN

I said the, "better heads," not the norm. For some of us, spending $4,000+ is no big deal for some the best. Actually mine produce 299 cfm at .450 on the intake. Try that for size. TEA, Cartek, West Coast Cylinder Heads (STAGE III-V all produce good numbers). There are many other great head porters and some not so great. I would expect my C5 427 on this new improved build to put down over 600 r.w.h.p. on the new combo once broken in.


I cannot wait until I get my C6 Z06 and work those. 350/360 on the intake at .600 is good place to start.

Yawn

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Brent,

I am of course aware that our 225's will crest over 330 CFM with certain valve shapes....I spent days just playing with different valves, back cut angles, back cut widths, etc. trying to optimize and produce a flow curve that I felt would produce the most power, unfortunately, like most things in life, it's difficult to have your cake and eat it to. And what I mean by that is the valve that I ultimately chose did NOT have the highest peak flow, but its flow "curve" IMHO, was the most impressive....especially if you looked at the overall data from the crack of the valve to .600 lift. While it killed me not to be able to advertise a genuine "big" number (330+ at the SAME volume), it is our philoshophy and approach to cylinder head design that ultimately led me to my choice and subsequently the results you see plastered all over the internet. While not as effective from a "sales" perspective, I think the end results in power output speak for themselves. Also, as I have mentioned quite a few times in threads prior, we designed this head to be extremely efficient for the 98% crowd....meaning the guys running .600 ish hydraulic rollers, and mid .600 ish solid street rollers (which don't actually lift the valve much past .630 net). In certain more aggressive applications, the choice of a different valve would very likely make a little more power, but I bet it wouldn't be a tremendous gain over what we are providing for the masses.

Regarding the chamber bore diameter on our 225's, it is exactly 4.100 in width and we recommend at least a 4.125 or larger gasket diameter (larger if your bore is larger), even if you are bolting a set on a 346. The slight mismatch causes absolutley no issues with the right head gasket.

Buy American, the figures you are touting are obviously quite impressive but would carry more weight if recorded on a 3rd party independent bench that has proven to produce reasonably accurate results. Also, do you think some of the companies you have mentioned weren't included in this lengthy and very informative thread?

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ight=tony+mamo

JRP, one of the things I have come to realize in the last year or two (where my involvement on the exciting, usually entertaining, and always controversial Internet has been much greater), is that most people would opt for the "red pill" keeping themselves tucked neatly in the Matrix where everything is OK and the monies they spent on speed equipment yeilded them everything as promised. It is easier to sleep at night that way isn't it?

Personally, I opt for the "blue pill", and in the "real world" things don't always go quite as smoothly. Research, collection of hard data, assuming nothing is as it seems until proven that way, and lots of testing can yield some results that might make you happy or might make you sulk....but it's "real" and armed with that information you can be that much better prepared next time.

By the way, these observations are my opinions and nothing else, they aren't aimed at anybody or anyone....just something I've given more thought to of late. The flow information provided in the link above IS hard data, and while obviously not having the chance to flow everyone's product, it represents a pretty good cross section of the larger , higher flowing LS "production style" pieces currently on the market.

Tony M.

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

What are the chances of seeing a < 56cc chamber on these heads for us guys looking for the ubber compresion NA set ups?

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Not likely and no need...

Our maximum recommended mill on the 62 cc 225's will be 56 cc's (.036 flatmill). With a smallish 9 cc positive dome even a 346 CID build-up is 14 to 1 CR (with an .040 gasket and a piston .007 out of the hole).

I would say that qualifies for ubber CR....especially for a car you roll off the trailer and cruise the streets occasionaly with.

SideStep

Wet 1

iTrader: (4)

Well???

I just checked the TEA site... looks like these heads are now up to $3200.

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

This thread is very old. The heads have been $3200 for a while now.

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

Reason I ask is that domed pistons arent the best in the world for flame probogation. You can sidestep that issue with a flame chanel notched into the piston though.

My new motor will be running a 10cc dome on a 56cc chamber but I am looking for better flowing heads.

No street car here

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

NataSS
Are you stock cubic inches still?
Thats some damn nice compression you gonna make.
Holy gas prices. HAHA

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Guys...

"Domed" pistons get a bad rap from the days of trying to build a high compression small cubic inch BBC (small by today's standards) with a 119 cc combustion chamber and a 50 cc dome (YIKES!)....some of you guys weren't even an itch in Daddy's shorts then....
You needed a dome that was literally .750 tall and it practically blocked the entire spark plug and closed off half the combustion chamber.....THAT wasn't an ideal situation. The small dome required in the LS1's we are building to build some decent CR is NOT an issue whatsoever regarding flametravel. I would doubt there is even a 5 HP difference on the dyno assuming the same quench and final CR if you were able to test a flat top versus the small dome you are considering. The spark plug is still completely uncovered and there is plenty of room for the flamefront to work its way across the top of the piston.

No worries...

Tony M.

T/A Medic

iTrader: (1)

just make sure ur dome pistons are for AFR chambers... I have a 8.6cc dome on my pistons from Diamond and because of the new chamber design I couldnt get the heads to work. Piston hit the surface of the head. AFR 225

Thankfully Tony and AFR have awesome customer service. And I discussed the possibility of the heads not fitting with my piston before ordering with Tony. And got a total refund.

I almost shed a tear when I had to mail them back they were so nice.

Thanks again Tony.

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

Yeah, I am sticking with stock inches. Goal is to be the first NA, stock inches Ls1 fbody over 200mph. That and the sound of a stock inched, ubber compression motor at 8500 is tough to beat

Tony, thanks for clearing that up on the flame travel. I was under that impression but have heard from a number of people on this site as well as a few of the sponsors that domed pistons still had problems with flame travel in the LS1's. Be looking for a PM or email from me shortly. I have a couple of questions for you.

NataSS

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Diamond has digitized our chambers and I'm almost sure has an AFR dedicated dome piston available, or one that will be made available shortly. I expect to speak with Ron @ Diamond today regarding a different project and I will make sure I ask him about his dome situation concerning AFR heads.

Plenty of time to get another set of AFR's....

Phil99vette

iTrader: (11)

Man, I need a set of AFR 225s with 72cc chambers and 3.905 pistons with a 17cc dome! That'd make some serious HP...
Phil