Let's hear your GM Hot Cam numbers
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,246
Likes: 3
From: Troy, AL
"I see. So it's not so much an issue of lift as it is an issue of how fast that lift ramps up.
So a cam with very steep lobes will wear springs out faster than a cam that gradually builds up."
Well, the springs DO have to be able to accomodate the lift, of course, but you're correct that the steep ramps are the main factor that taxes the springs. With extremely aggressive rates, even a .500 lift lobe could be harder on springs than say a .600 lift cam with slow ramp rates.
So a cam with very steep lobes will wear springs out faster than a cam that gradually builds up."
Well, the springs DO have to be able to accomodate the lift, of course, but you're correct that the steep ramps are the main factor that taxes the springs. With extremely aggressive rates, even a .500 lift lobe could be harder on springs than say a .600 lift cam with slow ramp rates.
For what its worth I made 381/373 untuned with mine. It produces 350+ ft-lbs of torque from 3050 rpms through 5700 rpms. I may go with something bigger in the future, but for now it works for me.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,246
Likes: 3
From: Troy, AL
BTW, for the person that argued that 1.8s don't defeat the whole purpose of a Hotcam...you do realize that you have effectively done the same thing as increasing the lift AND the ramp rates in regards to spring longevity don't you? You've also increased the duration at .050 too.
Price advantage gone? CHECK!
Super low lift gone? CHECK!
Super slow ramp rates gone? CHECK!
Still an underperformer at the track? CHECK!
Price advantage gone? CHECK!
Super low lift gone? CHECK!
Super slow ramp rates gone? CHECK!
Still an underperformer at the track? CHECK!
dammit 
, everything i was going to say has been covered. i will say though that the cost of admisssion for the hot cam is cheap in the short term but most people end up swapping the cam out anyway. so that means your back to square one on the "expensive" cam cost as you'll need both a new cam and springs. while if you do a 220, 224, 230 and some PP golds the first time you can sell the old cam for usually a decent price, pick up a new cam ~400 and leave in the old springs. bout the only person you can sell the hot cam to is an uneducated one 
. the hot cam also isnt a plug and play cam, people think they can get a way with the HC and no tune, it has all the tuning issues of bigger cams with alot of overlap but your getting half the power. all bark and no bite, thats what i like to call it 
, everything i was going to say has been covered. i will say though that the cost of admisssion for the hot cam is cheap in the short term but most people end up swapping the cam out anyway. so that means your back to square one on the "expensive" cam cost as you'll need both a new cam and springs. while if you do a 220, 224, 230 and some PP golds the first time you can sell the old cam for usually a decent price, pick up a new cam ~400 and leave in the old springs. bout the only person you can sell the hot cam to is an uneducated one . the hot cam also isnt a plug and play cam, people think they can get a way with the HC and no tune, it has all the tuning issues of bigger cams with alot of overlap but your getting half the power. all bark and no bite, thats what i like to call it 
!LS1 11 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,133
Likes: 2
From: Miami
Originally Posted by jrp
.... the hot cam also isnt a plug and play cam, people think they can get a way with the HC and no tune, it has all the tuning issues of bigger cams with alot of overlap ....
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,839
Likes: 0
Twatcam notcam whatever you want to call it, its still for the uneducated (and those who shop exclusively at SLP).
If you want a better idle and more power, you can get it from another cam.
If you want the same idle and a lot more power, you can get it from another cam.
Throw in the cost of tuning and suddenly the notcam doesn't seem like much of a bargain.
The B1/TR220 would both out perform the twatcam without tuning, and be easier to make emissions legal at that.
The only thing it has going for it is cheap price and cheap springs.
Hotcam is like rice for f-bodies.
Its all about image and not being able to back it up.
If you want a better idle and more power, you can get it from another cam.
If you want the same idle and a lot more power, you can get it from another cam.
Throw in the cost of tuning and suddenly the notcam doesn't seem like much of a bargain.
The B1/TR220 would both out perform the twatcam without tuning, and be easier to make emissions legal at that.
The only thing it has going for it is cheap price and cheap springs.
Hotcam is like rice for f-bodies.
Its all about image and not being able to back it up.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Hotcam is like rice for f-bodies
TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,662
Likes: 1
From: LaConner WA
Yeah WAHUSKER you need one of those extreme ramp rate, smooth idle, high peak, low average hp, high lift drag race oriented cams that these guru's are trying to do you a favor by recommending. They REALLY have YOUR best interests at heart you know. And then when you run next years PE130 I'll stop by and pick you up at about the 20 mile mark, I promise 
Originally Posted by Racehead
Yeah WAHUSKER you need one of those extreme ramp rate, smooth idle, high peak, low average hp, high lift drag race oriented cams that these guru's are trying to do you a favor by recommending. They REALLY have YOUR best interests at heart you know. And then when you run next years PE130 I'll stop by and pick you up at about the 20 mile mark, I promise
1. Idle better
2. do not require custom tuning to help drivability
3. have better performance
4. have better emissions
Even "smaller" cams like the 221/221 B1 or the TR-224 will outperform a hotcam, and they do not have aggressive ramps, or high lifts. They also idle better and don't require drivability issue tuning.
Like I said before, the hotcam is just CHEAP. It has nothing else going for it. Sure, it shows gains over stock, but not as well as other cams that do not sacrifice drivability. When you can't custom tune a car on your own, the cheap price of the hotcam gets buried by the cost of the tune job.
TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,662
Likes: 1
From: LaConner WA
Originally Posted by Nine Ball
What are you talking about? There are quite a few cams out there that:
1. Idle better
2. do not require custom tuning to help drivability
3. have better performance
4. have better emissions
Even "smaller" cams like the 221/221 B1 or the TR-224 will outperform a hotcam, and they do not have aggressive ramps, or high lifts. They also idle better and don't require drivability issue tuning.
Like I said before, the hotcam is just CHEAP. It has nothing else going for it. Sure, it shows gains over stock, but not as well as other cams that do not sacrifice drivability. When you can't custom tune a car on your own, the cheap price of the hotcam gets buried by the cost of the tune job.
1. Idle better
2. do not require custom tuning to help drivability
3. have better performance
4. have better emissions
Even "smaller" cams like the 221/221 B1 or the TR-224 will outperform a hotcam, and they do not have aggressive ramps, or high lifts. They also idle better and don't require drivability issue tuning.
Like I said before, the hotcam is just CHEAP. It has nothing else going for it. Sure, it shows gains over stock, but not as well as other cams that do not sacrifice drivability. When you can't custom tune a car on your own, the cheap price of the hotcam gets buried by the cost of the tune job.
1) I don't think I could find one single person in this whole entire world that doesn't know that you can find a cam that idles better and puts out more peak hp than the Hotcam. Why do you keep bringing it up ? Oh I forgot nobody told you about stuff like "easy on valvetrain" and "area under the curve" and things like that. Well there, now I've told you. Did you ask WAHUSKER what was important to him before bashing his cam ?
2) Who cares if you actually have to tune your car to your cam. People being to lazy to tune their cars doesn't make a wide LSA cam superior to a narrow LSA cam. Did you ask WAHUSKER if HE was concerned about having to tune his cam before bashing it ?
3) By performance you mean peak hp, drag race type performance, or extra performance paid for with extra valve train wear and tear. There are NO free rides with camshafts. A gain in one area means a loss in another. The Hotcam has great area under the curve and is easy on the valvetrain. Some people actually go for that. Did you ask WAHUSKER what type of performance that he was after before bashing his cam ?
4)Emissions are a concern for some, but not for others. Did you ask WAHUSKER if it was a concern for HIM before bashing his cam ?
And BTW a B1 and a TR224 DO have fast ramp rates. That's how they get their smooth idle AND high peak hp #'s. How did YOU think they did it ? Waving a magic wand or something ? Yes there are other cams that have even faster rates than these for even smoother idles and even higher peak hp #'s. Just because it doesn't have an XE-R lobe on it, it doesn't mean that the ramp rates aren't fast.
Last edited by Racehead; Aug 6, 2004 at 09:44 PM.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,246
Likes: 3
From: Troy, AL
The B1 doesn't have what most would consider to be fast ramp rates (XE-Rs are fast, yes.)
BTW, fast ramp rates mean better power EVERYWHERE, not just at the peak. I don't know where you got the slow ramps = broad power thing.
Power under the blah, blah, blah....you don't seem to even know what that means. Sounds good when you say it though, right? Wrong, sounds like you're talking out of your *** to me. 
For the millionth time, the Notcam has ONE thing and ONE thing only going for over all other cams...IT IS CHEAPER! And that makes it an ok pick for some people.
Please have a clue before posting in a cam thread again. Thanks.
BTW, fast ramp rates mean better power EVERYWHERE, not just at the peak. I don't know where you got the slow ramps = broad power thing.
Power under the blah, blah, blah....you don't seem to even know what that means. Sounds good when you say it though, right? Wrong, sounds like you're talking out of your *** to me. For the millionth time, the Notcam has ONE thing and ONE thing only going for over all other cams...IT IS CHEAPER! And that makes it an ok pick for some people.
Please have a clue before posting in a cam thread again. Thanks.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,246
Likes: 3
From: Troy, AL
"2) Who cares if you actually have to tune your car to your cam. People being to lazy to tune their cars doesn't make a wide LSA cam superior to a narrow LSA cam."
Most people that have the means to tune their own cars do not go for a bargain basement Hotcam. So, I guess the answer to your question is that most people who would be buying the Hotcam would care if it requires tuning.
Most people that have the means to tune their own cars do not go for a bargain basement Hotcam. So, I guess the answer to your question is that most people who would be buying the Hotcam would care if it requires tuning.
TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,662
Likes: 1
From: LaConner WA
Originally Posted by Colonel
The B1 doesn't have what most would consider to be fast ramp rates (XE-Rs are fast, yes.)
BTW, fast ramp rates mean better power EVERYWHERE, not just at the peak. I don't know where you got the slow ramps = broad power thing. Power under the blah, blah, blah....you don't seem to even know what that means. Sounds good when you say it though, right? Wrong, sounds like you're talking out of your *** to me.
For the millionth time, the Notcam has ONE thing and ONE thing only going for over all other cams...IT IS CHEAPER! And that makes it an ok pick for some people.
Please have a clue before posting in a cam thread again. Thanks.
BTW, fast ramp rates mean better power EVERYWHERE, not just at the peak. I don't know where you got the slow ramps = broad power thing.
Power under the blah, blah, blah....you don't seem to even know what that means. Sounds good when you say it though, right? Wrong, sounds like you're talking out of your *** to me. For the millionth time, the Notcam has ONE thing and ONE thing only going for over all other cams...IT IS CHEAPER! And that makes it an ok pick for some people.
Please have a clue before posting in a cam thread again. Thanks.
1) Easy on the valve train
2) great area under the curve i.e. makes great power even wayyy down low
3) It's inexpensive to purchase
Your right it doesn't have ONE thing going for it. Looks alot like 3 to me
Besides even being cheaper doesn't make it "OK" to pick this cam on this site. If it was ok to pick it then you wouldn't bash it every single time somebody mentioned it would you ?
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,889
Likes: 1
From: Lincolnton, NC
Damn, Col. coming off a little hostle being an admin on here. You have helped get this thread way off topic. No need to get nasty about it. Just say nothing since we all know you hate it. I have the Hot cam and like it. I am not a drag racer but went with WAHUSKER for the first time ever last Friday. I was able to trap 113.22mph on a traction limited 2.2sec 60ft. That ain't too bad with the minimal mods I have on street tires.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,246
Likes: 3
From: Troy, AL
Slow ramps have NOTHING to do with a broad power band"
That's EXACTLY what I just said!
If you'll read what I said you'll note that I didn't say the Hotcam only had one thing going for it. I said that it has only one thing going for it "over all other cams"
Understanding that now...
1. So are other cams.
2. Other cams do this better.
3. I agree as noted above. And for the millionth and one time, this is THE ONLY thing that the Hotcam has going for it ***OVER ALL OTHER CAMS***.
I've read all of the cam threads. Hell, I've written a few of them over the years.
That's EXACTLY what I just said!
If you'll read what I said you'll note that I didn't say the Hotcam only had one thing going for it. I said that it has only one thing going for it "over all other cams"
Understanding that now...
1. So are other cams.
2. Other cams do this better.
3. I agree as noted above. And for the millionth and one time, this is THE ONLY thing that the Hotcam has going for it ***OVER ALL OTHER CAMS***.
I've read all of the cam threads. Hell, I've written a few of them over the years.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,246
Likes: 3
From: Troy, AL
"Damn, Col. coming off a little hostle being an admin on here."
Admin has nothing to do with it. He was being an *** to Tony therefore I'm being a little hostile. He's a big boy, he can handle it.
Admin has nothing to do with it. He was being an *** to Tony therefore I'm being a little hostile. He's a big boy, he can handle it.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,246
Likes: 3
From: Troy, AL
"Just say nothing since we all know you hate it."
I'll say what I damn well please when I think it's going to keep others from making expensive mistakes...even if that means taking a thread off topic.
BTW, I trapped 113 MPH with a stock cam. That proves nothing.
I'll say what I damn well please when I think it's going to keep others from making expensive mistakes...even if that means taking a thread off topic.
BTW, I trapped 113 MPH with a stock cam. That proves nothing.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,889
Likes: 1
From: Lincolnton, NC
Okay so I made a mistake in your opinion. Doesn't bother me. And your trapping 113mph with a stock cam and what other items that your leaving out? Don't bother answering even though you can still say whatever you damn well please. So can everyone else. I was only trying to defend my friends too. No need to put everybody with it down.