Patriot Performance
08-21-2004, 07:00 PM
#42
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The CC26918 spring with the matching titanium retainer is a really good set up since you can not worry about clearance issues and they can handle like .600". I run those and have a .57x lift custom Comp shaft and havent ran into valve float yet, rev limit set at 6750.
08-21-2004, 07:03 PM
#43
i think 99 Black Bird T/A said it best in a previous PP vs * thread (this one happened to be TEA, which you could just as easily replace as "ABC")
TEA vs Patriot - my view
It's really best to read up on heads as much as possible then decide yourself. The two companies TEA & PP have different strong points and weaknesses.
Customer Service & Quality - IMO the nod here goes to TEA because TEA has outstanding customer service. With TEA you can talk directly with the owner if you want too. However, the best part of TEA's customer service IMO is TEA doesn't constantly have to send out parts to fix their heads after the fact.
Technical Expertise - Again TEA has the edge in this area. TEA has Micheal Paris who is a SAM grad that works with Brian doing development. If you look at the wild times Brian is on here posting at 4:30 am in the morning after doing R & D all night it's pretty obvious that TEA constantly strives to improve their products. Check out Brians new thread on the very promising new port on the LS6/6.0 heads. Patriot also does R & D but most of their recent energy appears to have been focused on bringing out new products not improving their heads. Patriot has a their own line of springs, rockers & valve train parts coming. Personally, I want continous improvement of the product and TEA has the advantage in this area. TEA also has the advantage in highly trained expert SAM machinst over Patriot. I've known two SAM grads for several years and I've learned one should NEVER underestimate how important it is to have smart top quailty talent doing your engine work, machining, product development & cylinder heads.
Warranty TEA has a better warranty with a 2 year/24,000 mile warrranty on TEA's valve train componets. Notice that TEA hasn't had to send a steady stream of replacement parts to end users to fix problems. In other words, TEA can give a good warranty because high quailty parts are used. Patriot also has a short warranty for a few months with lots of disclaimers.
Flexiable Options - TEA OWNS this area. Which stage do you want? S1, S1.5, S2, S2.5? TEA has them all. How about a custom dished exhaust valve for enhanced exhaust flow? Or better yet would you like a high flow NOS specific exhaust port? Which Ferrea valves would you like?2.02, 2.05, 2.08, 2.10 or custom race only titanium? Yes Ferrea valves are standard other than as exhaust valve on the stage 1.5 head. Hand finishing is availble for all TEA heads. Springs? Which cam? 987's for smaller mild cams, 978,977,921 etc matched to your application. What combination of these options best suit your needs? BTW TEA has develop specific combinations for the above tailored to the bore size that your engine will run. Need help with the options call TEA. Patriot - standard valves or $100 more for Ferrea. S1 or S2? For the LS6 style heads 2.02, 2.05's or 2.08's? Springs? How about gold ones one size fit's call. Ok we're done.
Pricing Patriot wins with the lowest price but if you look at reasons above it's easy to see how PP should have a lower price. Also Patriot has an ecomony of scale when buying parts because PP the performance division of the Walmart of cylinder heads, Alabama Cylinder Head. However, a careful comparison will show that PP isn't all that much less expensive. If problems occur for example new valve seals are sent out by PP due to high oil consumption as has occured several times their is a cost in more down time even if you do the work yourself. If you have to pay someone to install the new seals going with a PP head will often end up costing a good bit more than a TEA head.
Customer satisfaction - Check out all the long time happy TEA users that have posted in this thread. I'm one too. In fact after the TEA S2 5.3's for my T/A, I went back to TEA for set of their Judson LS6 2.5 hand finished heads. I've seen a lot of heads and the current TEA line up is of superior quality & potential. Of course the best thing sometimes require a little waiting because everyone else want's quailty performance too! Both companies have their loyal satisfied customers. I think your chances of being a satistifed customer are a good bit greater with TEA.
Immediate Availbility TEA looses on this accord because cookie cutting isn't (pardon this) their cup of tea. Need an off the shelf on the shelf head call PP. Ported heads from TEA will require a reasonable wait of a few weeks for your custom configured set. Note MTI, Absolute, Cartek etc also take a few weeks because they do custom heads not cookie cutters.
Power - One has to read up. I think TEA has an edge in this area based on how I see the overal data. Ultimately, I know some of TEA's older combos with 5.3 heads ~224ish sized cams have made as much or more than some PP's LS6 style combos with bigger cams. I also know some PP packages have put down nice numbers too. The only way to truely answer the power question is to test the respective heads back to back on the same engine dyno on the same engine.
So IMO the best head for the money you should go with TEA. However, as for which TEA head, I suggest calling Brian and talking with him about your application. I'm sure he can work something out for you. My favorite TEA heads are the 5.3's, 6.0's & LS6's (sweeter!) in that order.
I would also consider Absolute & MTI. West Coast seems pretty sharp as do several of the others. Mikey @ Rapid Motorsports seems to have a nice cylinder head as do Cartek, APE, RGR, GTP, and others. I think Janzter also has pretty nice 5.7 that's runs very well.
TEA vs Patriot - my view
It's really best to read up on heads as much as possible then decide yourself. The two companies TEA & PP have different strong points and weaknesses.
Customer Service & Quality - IMO the nod here goes to TEA because TEA has outstanding customer service. With TEA you can talk directly with the owner if you want too. However, the best part of TEA's customer service IMO is TEA doesn't constantly have to send out parts to fix their heads after the fact.
Technical Expertise - Again TEA has the edge in this area. TEA has Micheal Paris who is a SAM grad that works with Brian doing development. If you look at the wild times Brian is on here posting at 4:30 am in the morning after doing R & D all night it's pretty obvious that TEA constantly strives to improve their products. Check out Brians new thread on the very promising new port on the LS6/6.0 heads. Patriot also does R & D but most of their recent energy appears to have been focused on bringing out new products not improving their heads. Patriot has a their own line of springs, rockers & valve train parts coming. Personally, I want continous improvement of the product and TEA has the advantage in this area. TEA also has the advantage in highly trained expert SAM machinst over Patriot. I've known two SAM grads for several years and I've learned one should NEVER underestimate how important it is to have smart top quailty talent doing your engine work, machining, product development & cylinder heads.
Warranty TEA has a better warranty with a 2 year/24,000 mile warrranty on TEA's valve train componets. Notice that TEA hasn't had to send a steady stream of replacement parts to end users to fix problems. In other words, TEA can give a good warranty because high quailty parts are used. Patriot also has a short warranty for a few months with lots of disclaimers.
Flexiable Options - TEA OWNS this area. Which stage do you want? S1, S1.5, S2, S2.5? TEA has them all. How about a custom dished exhaust valve for enhanced exhaust flow? Or better yet would you like a high flow NOS specific exhaust port? Which Ferrea valves would you like?2.02, 2.05, 2.08, 2.10 or custom race only titanium? Yes Ferrea valves are standard other than as exhaust valve on the stage 1.5 head. Hand finishing is availble for all TEA heads. Springs? Which cam? 987's for smaller mild cams, 978,977,921 etc matched to your application. What combination of these options best suit your needs? BTW TEA has develop specific combinations for the above tailored to the bore size that your engine will run. Need help with the options call TEA. Patriot - standard valves or $100 more for Ferrea. S1 or S2? For the LS6 style heads 2.02, 2.05's or 2.08's? Springs? How about gold ones one size fit's call. Ok we're done.
Pricing Patriot wins with the lowest price but if you look at reasons above it's easy to see how PP should have a lower price. Also Patriot has an ecomony of scale when buying parts because PP the performance division of the Walmart of cylinder heads, Alabama Cylinder Head. However, a careful comparison will show that PP isn't all that much less expensive. If problems occur for example new valve seals are sent out by PP due to high oil consumption as has occured several times their is a cost in more down time even if you do the work yourself. If you have to pay someone to install the new seals going with a PP head will often end up costing a good bit more than a TEA head.
Customer satisfaction - Check out all the long time happy TEA users that have posted in this thread. I'm one too. In fact after the TEA S2 5.3's for my T/A, I went back to TEA for set of their Judson LS6 2.5 hand finished heads. I've seen a lot of heads and the current TEA line up is of superior quality & potential. Of course the best thing sometimes require a little waiting because everyone else want's quailty performance too! Both companies have their loyal satisfied customers. I think your chances of being a satistifed customer are a good bit greater with TEA.
Immediate Availbility TEA looses on this accord because cookie cutting isn't (pardon this) their cup of tea. Need an off the shelf on the shelf head call PP. Ported heads from TEA will require a reasonable wait of a few weeks for your custom configured set. Note MTI, Absolute, Cartek etc also take a few weeks because they do custom heads not cookie cutters.
Power - One has to read up. I think TEA has an edge in this area based on how I see the overal data. Ultimately, I know some of TEA's older combos with 5.3 heads ~224ish sized cams have made as much or more than some PP's LS6 style combos with bigger cams. I also know some PP packages have put down nice numbers too. The only way to truely answer the power question is to test the respective heads back to back on the same engine dyno on the same engine.
So IMO the best head for the money you should go with TEA. However, as for which TEA head, I suggest calling Brian and talking with him about your application. I'm sure he can work something out for you. My favorite TEA heads are the 5.3's, 6.0's & LS6's (sweeter!) in that order.
I would also consider Absolute & MTI. West Coast seems pretty sharp as do several of the others. Mikey @ Rapid Motorsports seems to have a nice cylinder head as do Cartek, APE, RGR, GTP, and others. I think Janzter also has pretty nice 5.7 that's runs very well.
08-21-2004, 07:13 PM
#44
TECH Fanatic
Originally Posted by Hysteria
The CC26918 spring with the matching titanium retainer is a really good set up since you can not worry about clearance issues and they can handle like .600". I run those and have a .57x lift custom Comp shaft and havent ran into valve float yet, rev limit set at 6750.
There is no clearance issues with the GOLD spring kit.
08-21-2004, 08:43 PM
#45
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What I hate is that we are always the damn guinea pigs, lets put out x part and see if it does good, oh wow lets use x port and see if this does good.
And then when x part and x port are used x person is left scratching their head wondering where x power is and why x car is f*cked up. What we need is for all the sponsors, whether it be ABC or XYZ to stop screwing us over and tell us the damn truth.
In other words lets say I want to duplicate the 500 hp 347 package?
Can any vendor step up and garantee that that we the consumer can also get this #?
I have a stock 347 that I am building up right now.
Patriot or ABC or XYZ can you tell me exactly what parts I need to dup your magazine setup?
I mean all the parts what are they (so there are no excuses if I do not hit 500 hp)?
I also want to know what kind of tune I need to use. I.E what max timing? What a/f ratio? Also what is the expected longevity of this 347?
When I go to dyno exactly what do I need to do to get 500 hp out of a 347 (do I need shortbelt, special rims, special drivetrain, EWP) and can I then safely drive the car for months in 500 hp mode?
I want to know what I am getting into before I buy the heads so step up to the plate and answer the questions if you dare
And then when x part and x port are used x person is left scratching their head wondering where x power is and why x car is f*cked up. What we need is for all the sponsors, whether it be ABC or XYZ to stop screwing us over and tell us the damn truth.
In other words lets say I want to duplicate the 500 hp 347 package?
Can any vendor step up and garantee that that we the consumer can also get this #?
I have a stock 347 that I am building up right now.
Patriot or ABC or XYZ can you tell me exactly what parts I need to dup your magazine setup?
I mean all the parts what are they (so there are no excuses if I do not hit 500 hp)?
I also want to know what kind of tune I need to use. I.E what max timing? What a/f ratio? Also what is the expected longevity of this 347?
When I go to dyno exactly what do I need to do to get 500 hp out of a 347 (do I need shortbelt, special rims, special drivetrain, EWP) and can I then safely drive the car for months in 500 hp mode?
I want to know what I am getting into before I buy the heads so step up to the plate and answer the questions if you dare
08-21-2004, 09:00 PM
#46
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NOS done the same thing back in the 1980's with their FI NOS kits. They just got it in the ball park and sent 'em out. Seen alot of engines toasted back then, but also the nitrous knowledge was still in its infancy then. Alot of Companies cannot R&D real world tests because they need to make a profit and if the percentile of good product is high they will go to production. I am not familiar with the clearance issues with the new gold springs so TVWilkes probably knows what he is talking about since he works at Patriot. BTW, I heard you were leaving.
08-21-2004, 09:20 PM
#47
TECH Fanatic
Originally Posted by Hysteria
NOS done the same thing back in the 1980's with their FI NOS kits. They just got it in the ball park and sent 'em out. Seen alot of engines toasted back then, but also the nitrous knowledge was still in its infancy then. Alot of Companies cannot R&D real world tests because they need to make a profit and if the percentile of good product is high they will go to production. I am not familiar with the clearance issues with the new gold springs so TVWilkes probably knows what he is talking about since he works at Patriot. BTW, I heard you were leaving.
08-22-2004, 12:01 AM
#48
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Like some of you guys who have mentioned, I am PISSED that I was their R&D and now I have some not-performing-costing-the-same-as-the-new-nice-ones heads.
AWESOME!
-Steve
AWESOME!
-Steve
08-22-2004, 09:01 AM
#49
consumers are always gonna be test mules for new products in a market like this. a company will test something to an extent and when they think they get it right theyll send it out to customers and look for feed back on things to change. when you buy something that is brand new on the market you should expect that
now for my patriot experience. installed my heads last october. got them for 1295 + like 200 for gaskets and hardware. i had one spring failure about a month into it and terry next day aired a set of cranes at no charge. Cost = 0. since then been beating on the heads for about a year with no serious issues. i do have an oil consumption issue as i am still running the old valve seals but only because ive been too lazy to get in touch with terry and change them out.
car put out 424 hp and 404 ftlbs SAE and has gone 120.1 and 120.3 mph with a ton of high 119's.
i expect to go deep 11's the winter when i get the 9" i ordered.
i am completely happy with my heads
now for my patriot experience. installed my heads last october. got them for 1295 + like 200 for gaskets and hardware. i had one spring failure about a month into it and terry next day aired a set of cranes at no charge. Cost = 0. since then been beating on the heads for about a year with no serious issues. i do have an oil consumption issue as i am still running the old valve seals but only because ive been too lazy to get in touch with terry and change them out.
car put out 424 hp and 404 ftlbs SAE and has gone 120.1 and 120.3 mph with a ton of high 119's.
i expect to go deep 11's the winter when i get the 9" i ordered.
i am completely happy with my heads
08-22-2004, 11:24 AM
#50
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How about this:
Patriot, TEA Absolute and other vendors
Please list a detailed description of the parts (and manufacturer) used in your cylinder heads.
valvetrain(spring, retainer, valve size/type, seals etc)
There are plenty of guys running fast with PP heads, TEA and others.
They also ALL had R&D problems at one point or another. Port design, seal problems, spring problems etc. If you think PP are the only ones with seal or spring problems I have some more crack for you to smoke.
The list of parts used does NOT sound substandard to me at all in PP heads. I'd like to see a comparision of the parts used. I think it'll be enlightening for a lot of people.
What PP is doing pricing wise is GREAT for the consumer. It makes heads become affordable across the board.
They either adjust their pricing or they go out of business.
For a base CNC ported head PP are great (As are other vendors) for an ALL out race product nothing beats CNC combined with hand finishing (which TEA, PP and others do)
Patriot, TEA Absolute and other vendors
Please list a detailed description of the parts (and manufacturer) used in your cylinder heads.
valvetrain(spring, retainer, valve size/type, seals etc)
There are plenty of guys running fast with PP heads, TEA and others.
They also ALL had R&D problems at one point or another. Port design, seal problems, spring problems etc. If you think PP are the only ones with seal or spring problems I have some more crack for you to smoke.
The list of parts used does NOT sound substandard to me at all in PP heads. I'd like to see a comparision of the parts used. I think it'll be enlightening for a lot of people.
What PP is doing pricing wise is GREAT for the consumer. It makes heads become affordable across the board.
They either adjust their pricing or they go out of business.
For a base CNC ported head PP are great (As are other vendors) for an ALL out race product nothing beats CNC combined with hand finishing (which TEA, PP and others do)
08-23-2004, 05:53 AM
#53
Originally Posted by Chris ARE 385
How about this:
Patriot, TEA Absolute and other vendors
Please list a detailed description of the parts (and manufacturer) used in your cylinder heads.
valvetrain(spring, retainer, valve size/type, seals etc)
There are plenty of guys running fast with PP heads, TEA and others.
They also ALL had R&D problems at one point or another. Port design, seal problems, spring problems etc. If you think PP are the only ones with seal or spring problems I have some more crack for you to smoke.
The list of parts used does NOT sound substandard to me at all in PP heads. I'd like to see a comparision of the parts used. I think it'll be enlightening for a lot of people.
What PP is doing pricing wise is GREAT for the consumer. It makes heads become affordable across the board.
They either adjust their pricing or they go out of business.
For a base CNC ported head PP are great (As are other vendors) for an ALL out race product nothing beats CNC combined with hand finishing (which TEA, PP and others do)
Patriot, TEA Absolute and other vendors
Please list a detailed description of the parts (and manufacturer) used in your cylinder heads.
valvetrain(spring, retainer, valve size/type, seals etc)
There are plenty of guys running fast with PP heads, TEA and others.
They also ALL had R&D problems at one point or another. Port design, seal problems, spring problems etc. If you think PP are the only ones with seal or spring problems I have some more crack for you to smoke.
The list of parts used does NOT sound substandard to me at all in PP heads. I'd like to see a comparision of the parts used. I think it'll be enlightening for a lot of people.
What PP is doing pricing wise is GREAT for the consumer. It makes heads become affordable across the board.
They either adjust their pricing or they go out of business.
For a base CNC ported head PP are great (As are other vendors) for an ALL out race product nothing beats CNC combined with hand finishing (which TEA, PP and others do)
Bruce
08-23-2004, 08:38 AM
#54
For people asking or would like to know about what parts are in our heads:
Heads: BRAND NEW GM castings (not take offs or blems)
Intake Valves: REV CL1175 2.055" Intake Valve
Exhaust Valves: REV CL1169 1.57" Exhaust Valve
Valve Springs: Ferrea S10075 Dual valve spring
Retainers: Ferrea E10020 Titanium Retainer
Valve Lock: Ferrea K10058 Machined Valve Lock
Spring Cup: Ferrea SL1030
Valve Seal: Metal Clad Seal
Valve Seat: Ductile Iron Valve seat (Not a factory seat used)
Valve Guide: Custom Made Mag. Bronze guide
If you have any more questions please post them here.
The only part that is factory is the head castings. As you can see no parts from the factory are used, this insures that you are getting a quality product. We offer different chamber sizes, valve and valve spring options too.
Heads: BRAND NEW GM castings (not take offs or blems)
Intake Valves: REV CL1175 2.055" Intake Valve
Exhaust Valves: REV CL1169 1.57" Exhaust Valve
Valve Springs: Ferrea S10075 Dual valve spring
Retainers: Ferrea E10020 Titanium Retainer
Valve Lock: Ferrea K10058 Machined Valve Lock
Spring Cup: Ferrea SL1030
Valve Seal: Metal Clad Seal
Valve Seat: Ductile Iron Valve seat (Not a factory seat used)
Valve Guide: Custom Made Mag. Bronze guide
If you have any more questions please post them here.
The only part that is factory is the head castings. As you can see no parts from the factory are used, this insures that you are getting a quality product. We offer different chamber sizes, valve and valve spring options too.
08-23-2004, 09:02 AM
#56
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[QUOTE=v8maro]I'll break my Patriot Performance S2 5.3L head price down to you guys:
Heads: $1,200 (did the install myself)
First Spring swap because of broken spring after 4k miles: $380 (labor only), this also included the need for new shaved rockers to clear the retainers because they did not fit right...thanks TSP for help with that one. (Either that or buy $500 rockers as I was told...sigh)
Second Spring swap because of broken spring after 5k miles: $295 (labor) + $115 (tow being 30 miles from the shop), From this swap I found out that my two heads are DIFFERENT and require two different types of seats because they are machined different, this delayed my daily driver to be down an extra 3 days.
Total: $1990
-Did not include MLS gaskets (wish they did)
-Did not include Head bolts (paid TSP for the install kit)
The only thing I have liked about PP is the customer service, which has been excellent.
Power is lacking, 390rwhp with H/C is not very stout, an A4 car on the same dyno as me, same cam, diff heads, same bolt-ons, unlocked put down 7more rwhp, lock it and he'll have even more...
My final opinion is that since I got one of the first run of heads I got the shaft, and I got it hard.
Did PP help me out since they chose shitty springs? Yes, I got new ones for free.
Labor isn't free, nor is downtime.
I initially did heads on the car for more power, so I didn't have to swap springs (this was before Larry's tool was around and made it easy), This has ended up costing as much as ABC's heads and performing a lot less, to me, that is not very cool. The only reason I paid labor for my springs was because it's my Daily Driver and I had to be to work the next day and could not afford to have downtime.
PP could make this up to me by trading me a new set of properly machined, flow tested, nice heads, but I doubt this will happen with me posting this, and I don't expect them to.
Take from my exp what you will, I had a bad one, others have had better.
-Steve[/QUOTE
Next time you can stand a little down time, send your heads in and we will run through our shop, do any revisions that they may need, install new Patriot Gold springs, seals, and valves. When we return them, we will include MLS 6.0 gaskets and new head bolts!
Heads: $1,200 (did the install myself)
First Spring swap because of broken spring after 4k miles: $380 (labor only), this also included the need for new shaved rockers to clear the retainers because they did not fit right...thanks TSP for help with that one. (Either that or buy $500 rockers as I was told...sigh)
Second Spring swap because of broken spring after 5k miles: $295 (labor) + $115 (tow being 30 miles from the shop), From this swap I found out that my two heads are DIFFERENT and require two different types of seats because they are machined different, this delayed my daily driver to be down an extra 3 days.
Total: $1990
-Did not include MLS gaskets (wish they did)
-Did not include Head bolts (paid TSP for the install kit)
The only thing I have liked about PP is the customer service, which has been excellent.
Power is lacking, 390rwhp with H/C is not very stout, an A4 car on the same dyno as me, same cam, diff heads, same bolt-ons, unlocked put down 7more rwhp, lock it and he'll have even more...
My final opinion is that since I got one of the first run of heads I got the shaft, and I got it hard.
Did PP help me out since they chose shitty springs? Yes, I got new ones for free.
Labor isn't free, nor is downtime.
I initially did heads on the car for more power, so I didn't have to swap springs (this was before Larry's tool was around and made it easy), This has ended up costing as much as ABC's heads and performing a lot less, to me, that is not very cool. The only reason I paid labor for my springs was because it's my Daily Driver and I had to be to work the next day and could not afford to have downtime.
PP could make this up to me by trading me a new set of properly machined, flow tested, nice heads, but I doubt this will happen with me posting this, and I don't expect them to.
Take from my exp what you will, I had a bad one, others have had better.
-Steve[/QUOTE
Next time you can stand a little down time, send your heads in and we will run through our shop, do any revisions that they may need, install new Patriot Gold springs, seals, and valves. When we return them, we will include MLS 6.0 gaskets and new head bolts!
08-23-2004, 10:24 AM
#57
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Originally Posted by GUNNAR@PATRIOT
250cc, our valves are our own Patriot brand. They are made of 23-8N stainless steel. We do include a flow sheet at the customers request.
Thanks.
08-23-2004, 10:46 AM
#58
TECH Senior Member
[QUOTE=GUNNAR@PATRIOT] See, now that is customer service! If i were you, I'll take my heads off overnight and send them out in the morning. 
Originally Posted by v8maro
I'll break my Patriot Performance S2 5.3L head price down to you guys:
Heads: $1,200 (did the install myself)
First Spring swap because of broken spring after 4k miles: $380 (labor only), this also included the need for new shaved rockers to clear the retainers because they did not fit right...thanks TSP for help with that one. (Either that or buy $500 rockers as I was told...sigh)
Second Spring swap because of broken spring after 5k miles: $295 (labor) + $115 (tow being 30 miles from the shop), From this swap I found out that my two heads are DIFFERENT and require two different types of seats because they are machined different, this delayed my daily driver to be down an extra 3 days.
Total: $1990
-Did not include MLS gaskets (wish they did)
-Did not include Head bolts (paid TSP for the install kit)
The only thing I have liked about PP is the customer service, which has been excellent.
Power is lacking, 390rwhp with H/C is not very stout, an A4 car on the same dyno as me, same cam, diff heads, same bolt-ons, unlocked put down 7more rwhp, lock it and he'll have even more...
My final opinion is that since I got one of the first run of heads I got the shaft, and I got it hard.
Did PP help me out since they chose shitty springs? Yes, I got new ones for free.
Labor isn't free, nor is downtime.
I initially did heads on the car for more power, so I didn't have to swap springs (this was before Larry's tool was around and made it easy), This has ended up costing as much as ABC's heads and performing a lot less, to me, that is not very cool. The only reason I paid labor for my springs was because it's my Daily Driver and I had to be to work the next day and could not afford to have downtime.
PP could make this up to me by trading me a new set of properly machined, flow tested, nice heads, but I doubt this will happen with me posting this, and I don't expect them to.
Take from my exp what you will, I had a bad one, others have had better.
-Steve
Heads: $1,200 (did the install myself)
First Spring swap because of broken spring after 4k miles: $380 (labor only), this also included the need for new shaved rockers to clear the retainers because they did not fit right...thanks TSP for help with that one. (Either that or buy $500 rockers as I was told...sigh)
Second Spring swap because of broken spring after 5k miles: $295 (labor) + $115 (tow being 30 miles from the shop), From this swap I found out that my two heads are DIFFERENT and require two different types of seats because they are machined different, this delayed my daily driver to be down an extra 3 days.
Total: $1990
-Did not include MLS gaskets (wish they did)
-Did not include Head bolts (paid TSP for the install kit)
The only thing I have liked about PP is the customer service, which has been excellent.
Power is lacking, 390rwhp with H/C is not very stout, an A4 car on the same dyno as me, same cam, diff heads, same bolt-ons, unlocked put down 7more rwhp, lock it and he'll have even more...
My final opinion is that since I got one of the first run of heads I got the shaft, and I got it hard.
Did PP help me out since they chose shitty springs? Yes, I got new ones for free.
Labor isn't free, nor is downtime.
I initially did heads on the car for more power, so I didn't have to swap springs (this was before Larry's tool was around and made it easy), This has ended up costing as much as ABC's heads and performing a lot less, to me, that is not very cool. The only reason I paid labor for my springs was because it's my Daily Driver and I had to be to work the next day and could not afford to have downtime.
PP could make this up to me by trading me a new set of properly machined, flow tested, nice heads, but I doubt this will happen with me posting this, and I don't expect them to.
Take from my exp what you will, I had a bad one, others have had better.
-Steve
Next time you can stand a little down time, send your heads in and we will run through our shop, do any revisions that they may need, install new Patriot Gold springs, seals, and valves. When we return them, we will include MLS 6.0 gaskets and new head bolts!
08-23-2004, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
See, now that is customer service! If i were you, I'll take my heads off overnight and send them out in the morning.
CMC
08-23-2004, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam-eye-Am
Please give me some more info here... I was looking at these heads about two months ago and was told they were 225cc (which your website states)... are the current production heads 250cc and have they always been that way, when was the change made? Also, what is the exhaust runner volume now.
Thanks.
Thanks.