check out my new darton block!!!!
08-29-2004, 10:04 PM
#21
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Contact Steve @ Race Engine Development. He's a co-inventor of the Darton MID sleeves and an LS1Tech.com sponsor. He always takes the time to help people understand the re-sleeving process. His prices are also extremely reasonable. 
08-30-2004, 09:40 AM
#22
So the coolant is surrounding the sleeve?
Now with the C5R block the coolant is not touching the sleeve.
Is it possible to have leaking with a Darton type block?
I dont think its possible with a C5r?
Steve u reccomend a special pump/coolant (EVANS) w/the Darton.
Could u explain whats the reasoning behind that need?
Whats a finished Darton
$2800
Now with the C5R block the coolant is not touching the sleeve.
Is it possible to have leaking with a Darton type block?
I dont think its possible with a C5r?
Steve u reccomend a special pump/coolant (EVANS) w/the Darton.
Could u explain whats the reasoning behind that need?
Whats a finished Darton
$2800
08-30-2004, 12:10 PM
#23
Ls1 Ls6 Mid The coolant is in direct contact with the MID sleeves - "wet sleeve". Same as most all heavy equipment diesels, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. If the machine work is done correctly, customer follows directions for gaskets, retorque, etc. there are no leaking issues between the head block interface. The sleeves are sealed to the block with three o'rings to prevent coolant leaking into the crankcase.
Cavitation is a problem with any wet sleeve. Water, antifreeze will cavitate and erode the coolant surface of the sleeve. In time it can eat a hole right through the sleeve. Diesel engines specify special coolant additives to prevent this damage. You need to maintain the concentration of these additives which requires special tools. Evans coolant requires no additives and is run 100%. No need to screw around checking concentrations.
The Evans coolant does not cavitate. It provides much improved protection from overheating. The NPG coolants have a high boiling point. The NPG R is up around 400 degrees. If I recall correctly the NPG + is 375 degrees. The high boiling point offers protection against steam pockets forming in the cylinder heads which is the main cause of detonation due to hot spots.
A good friend of mine races an off road jeep with a highly modified AMC 401. Two races ago he rolled it over during the race. He turned off the cooling fan switches when he rolled and forgot to turn them back on when he was uprighted to get back into the race. Evans NPG R coolant got up to 375 degrees by the time the race was over. I thought the engine was toast. Took the thing apart and found no overheating damage. A quick hone, rings and bearings were all that were needed. He won the last race with this same engine.
You could do two MID blocks with steel caps and studs for the price of one C5R. Most guys keep the stock caps. I highly recommend main studs - I do not use stock hardware.
I prefer an MID sleeved LS1 block for racing with blower or nitrous. The LS6 block is fine for high performance street use. It is weaker between the sleeves in the crankcase area because of the large windows cast into the main webbing. I have not found any internal differences between years of LS1 blocks.
I usually have core blocks in stock. I sell LS6 blems for $550. Prices on used LS1 blocks vary depending on what I bought them for. Note that a new block is not seasoned and must be stress relieved after I rough out the block. If this is not done the block will warp when run and the sleeves will go out of round. Stress relief costs $200 so a new blem block will in effect run $750.
Any of you guys or sponsors for that matter can PM or e-mail me for pricing on sleeves and installation. That was a picture of Dan's block that I posted.
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Cavitation is a problem with any wet sleeve. Water, antifreeze will cavitate and erode the coolant surface of the sleeve. In time it can eat a hole right through the sleeve. Diesel engines specify special coolant additives to prevent this damage. You need to maintain the concentration of these additives which requires special tools. Evans coolant requires no additives and is run 100%. No need to screw around checking concentrations.
The Evans coolant does not cavitate. It provides much improved protection from overheating. The NPG coolants have a high boiling point. The NPG R is up around 400 degrees. If I recall correctly the NPG + is 375 degrees. The high boiling point offers protection against steam pockets forming in the cylinder heads which is the main cause of detonation due to hot spots.
A good friend of mine races an off road jeep with a highly modified AMC 401. Two races ago he rolled it over during the race. He turned off the cooling fan switches when he rolled and forgot to turn them back on when he was uprighted to get back into the race. Evans NPG R coolant got up to 375 degrees by the time the race was over. I thought the engine was toast. Took the thing apart and found no overheating damage. A quick hone, rings and bearings were all that were needed. He won the last race with this same engine.
You could do two MID blocks with steel caps and studs for the price of one C5R. Most guys keep the stock caps. I highly recommend main studs - I do not use stock hardware.
I prefer an MID sleeved LS1 block for racing with blower or nitrous. The LS6 block is fine for high performance street use. It is weaker between the sleeves in the crankcase area because of the large windows cast into the main webbing. I have not found any internal differences between years of LS1 blocks.
I usually have core blocks in stock. I sell LS6 blems for $550. Prices on used LS1 blocks vary depending on what I bought them for. Note that a new block is not seasoned and must be stress relieved after I rough out the block. If this is not done the block will warp when run and the sleeves will go out of round. Stress relief costs $200 so a new blem block will in effect run $750.
Any of you guys or sponsors for that matter can PM or e-mail me for pricing on sleeves and installation. That was a picture of Dan's block that I posted.
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Originally Posted by JS
So the coolant is surrounding the sleeve?
Now with the C5R block the coolant is not touching the sleeve.
Is it possible to have leaking with a Darton type block?
I dont think its possible with a C5r?
Steve u reccomend a special pump/coolant (EVANS) w/the Darton.
Could u explain whats the reasoning behind that need?
Whats a finished Darton
$2800
Now with the C5R block the coolant is not touching the sleeve.
Is it possible to have leaking with a Darton type block?
I dont think its possible with a C5r?
Steve u reccomend a special pump/coolant (EVANS) w/the Darton.
Could u explain whats the reasoning behind that need?
Whats a finished Darton
$2800
08-30-2004, 03:02 PM
#26
Steve,I ran Evans in my 650RWHP LT1,I didnt like it very much.It was hard to burp and constantly has air pockets and we eventually went back to water/anti-freeze mix.
I understand evans now has this new stuff which is thinner,This must be the new coolant your talking about?
Very good info Steve,honestly is the C5R stronger in its form over a MID or not?
The R block as u know are dry sleeved and get pushed out if need be in replacing one.
How would u replace a MID if u had a problem?
If one MID costs 1/2 of a C5r I can see why its an attractive option to the R block...
Thanks for the info
I understand evans now has this new stuff which is thinner,This must be the new coolant your talking about?
Very good info Steve,honestly is the C5R stronger in its form over a MID or not?
The R block as u know are dry sleeved and get pushed out if need be in replacing one.
How would u replace a MID if u had a problem?
If one MID costs 1/2 of a C5r I can see why its an attractive option to the R block...
Thanks for the info
08-30-2004, 04:13 PM
#27
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well ive heard a couple of cases where these wet sleve blocks going over a 1000 hp with turbo cars and no problems yet so ....i shouldnt have anyproblems....im not even close to that.......
08-30-2004, 04:29 PM
#28
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Block Why don't you use that new camera that you bought? We all would like to see it in the car running, but it has been out for so long, I might be able to build another new home before it runs!!!!!! 
08-30-2004, 04:57 PM
#29
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Hmmm, very nice to. What are the multiple drillings around the cylinders for? Are they an attempt to allow water to flow along the deck and on towards the rear of the block? Thanks.
08-30-2004, 06:03 PM
#30
Sleeve flanges Mike,
The flange is part of what we patented. We felt that getting coolant circulating around the flange couldn't hurt. That's the hottest area of the sleeves since combustion takes place at the top of the stroke. Coolant transfer to the head is still regulated by the drill hole size in the gaskets.
The type R coolant is significantly thinner than the NPG +. It should be replaced every two years in a street car. The NPG + is permanent.
No arguement that the NPG + is difficult to fill the system with. We usually put several bleeds in the system (high points and water pump) to get all the air out. Once it's bleed properly you don't have to screw with it any more. A rear engine car like a Ferrari is especially difficult to do. It helps to jack the car to tilt it to get the bleeds up high.
Steve
The flange is part of what we patented. We felt that getting coolant circulating around the flange couldn't hurt. That's the hottest area of the sleeves since combustion takes place at the top of the stroke. Coolant transfer to the head is still regulated by the drill hole size in the gaskets.
The type R coolant is significantly thinner than the NPG +. It should be replaced every two years in a street car. The NPG + is permanent.
No arguement that the NPG + is difficult to fill the system with. We usually put several bleeds in the system (high points and water pump) to get all the air out. Once it's bleed properly you don't have to screw with it any more. A rear engine car like a Ferrari is especially difficult to do. It helps to jack the car to tilt it to get the bleeds up high.
Steve
Originally Posted by Mike at Boost Performance.co.uk
Hmmm, very nice to. What are the multiple drillings around the cylinders for? Are they an attempt to allow water to flow along the deck and on towards the rear of the block? Thanks.
08-31-2004, 07:08 AM
#34
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i wanted to check with chuck before i started blurting out prices .....horsepowerengineering can do the wet sleeves in the block for 2450.00!!!! it is 750.00 extra for a core block if you do not have one .....this price does not include machine work to get the final bore size this is just the price to put sleeves in your block.........thats a killer price....
08-31-2004, 07:16 AM
#35
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Here is a pic that I believe is in focus of my 427 after Steve at Race Eng. sent it to us and we had bored to 4.125 and the JE pistons and Callies rotating assembly all installed. 
Using Evans racing coolant, Evans Water Pump & their T'stat.
Using Evans racing coolant, Evans Water Pump & their T'stat.
08-31-2004, 08:49 AM
#36
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I prefer an MID sleeved LS1 block for racing with blower or nitrous.
Last edited by SLED28; 09-05-2004 at 12:56 PM.
