GMPP single plane..injection or carb??
09-09-2004, 12:07 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by GPowrie
Looks like a Wilson Manifold elbow to me.
went to their site, what i also found is a wilson 4 barrel TB which they say is shorter than others for more clearance...
"Our four-barrel throttle bodies are shorter in height than other brands by up to 1.25" for ease of packaging and reduced weight."
09-23-2004, 12:08 PM
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We drilled a hole after the TB to mount the MAP.....no IAC on our TB, but I have seen some that have it...should work fine. TPS works fine also.....its pretty easy to setup....just have your tuning skills polished, as the SD tune takes alittle time to get perfect.
Chris
Chris
09-23-2004, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AMS
We drilled a hole after the TB to mount the MAP.....no IAC on our TB, but I have seen some that have it...should work fine. TPS works fine also.....its pretty easy to setup....just have your tuning skills polished, as the SD tune takes alittle time to get perfect.
Chris
Chris
I was thinking of going SD but I have some Ideas for a Mass Air setup as well. It is gonna take some research for me to decide which route to take.
Brad
09-23-2004, 07:58 PM
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we have done testing on our single plane
Originally Posted by chebby
hey guys, i want to use the new GMPP single plane on a GTO..before you all jump in and say why not use an LSx or whatever...as you know they have limited space in front of the motor for a straight shot intake like the f-bods, which has influenced my decision...and i like the way it looks 
ill be running a modded hood on the street so clearance is not an issue, and another hood with a scoop for the track.
I am trying to decide between going with injection and a throttle body bolted straight on top (no elbow) and with a SD tune so no maf.
OR a 750 holley.
I am not asking about anything to do with the tune or electrics side of things with either option..i know whats involved..
Strictly from a performance point of view, what will be quicker on the track, a
old school carb or this style of single plane injection?? I know the LS1 rocks with the stock/LSx 'folds and injection, and ive had enough "old school" to know what a holley can do but ive never had experience with single planes and injection...
do these single planes go with injector rails and a t/b on top go?? has anyone had experience with similar setups like the holley ....I know some ppl dont like em, they prefer either a carb or the LS stye 'folds..
and which t/b would perform better, single butterfly or 4..it would be much easier to bolt an LS1 style single t/b as it has the correct throttle position sensor..but would it go like a 4 butterfly on a single plane..
sorry for the long winded post, but if anyone has any experience with 4 barrel injection any input will be appreciated, before i spend $$ on stuff that doesnt go and regret not using a carb..
ill be running a modded hood on the street so clearance is not an issue, and another hood with a scoop for the track.
I am trying to decide between going with injection and a throttle body bolted straight on top (no elbow) and with a SD tune so no maf.
OR a 750 holley.
I am not asking about anything to do with the tune or electrics side of things with either option..i know whats involved..
Strictly from a performance point of view, what will be quicker on the track, a
old school carb or this style of single plane injection?? I know the LS1 rocks with the stock/LSx 'folds and injection, and ive had enough "old school" to know what a holley can do but ive never had experience with single planes and injection...
do these single planes go with injector rails and a t/b on top go?? has anyone had experience with similar setups like the holley ....I know some ppl dont like em, they prefer either a carb or the LS stye 'folds..
and which t/b would perform better, single butterfly or 4..it would be much easier to bolt an LS1 style single t/b as it has the correct throttle position sensor..but would it go like a 4 butterfly on a single plane..
sorry for the long winded post, but if anyone has any experience with 4 barrel injection any input will be appreciated, before i spend $$ on stuff that doesnt go and regret not using a carb..
give a call at 952 448 5330, and i'll explane what we have. ask for myron.
09-24-2004, 01:05 AM
#29
Originally Posted by kp
Another pic for you, this is a 1000cfm 4 hole TB.
Anyone that has one of these intakes on a running n/a car right now send me a PM if you can. I am having some distribution issues with this intake and want to know if its just me..
Anyone that has one of these intakes on a running n/a car right now send me a PM if you can. I am having some distribution issues with this intake and want to know if its just me..
I talked to WAR at PRI last year, he was quite vocal on the even distribution of the manifold. EGT's within 75° (i'm assuming °F)
Much to my surprise, under boost my EGT's are all within 30°C (about 86°F). Middle 4 being the hotter of the 8 as expected.
How do you know the distribution is off??
09-24-2004, 05:55 AM
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Do the conventional GEN III style manifolds have this problem?
The reason I ask is that I am looking into the GMPP intake as an alternative to an LSX or Sheet Metal intake.
Thanks!
Brad
The reason I ask is that I am looking into the GMPP intake as an alternative to an LSX or Sheet Metal intake.
Thanks!
Brad
09-24-2004, 09:04 PM
#31
Originally Posted by y2khawk
How bad?
I talked to WAR at PRI last year, he was quite vocal on the even distribution of the manifold. EGT's within 75° (i'm assuming °F)
Much to my surprise, under boost my EGT's are all within 30°C (about 86°F). Middle 4 being the hotter of the 8 as expected.
How do you know the distribution is off??
I talked to WAR at PRI last year, he was quite vocal on the even distribution of the manifold. EGT's within 75° (i'm assuming °F)
Much to my surprise, under boost my EGT's are all within 30°C (about 86°F). Middle 4 being the hotter of the 8 as expected.
How do you know the distribution is off??
I dont have EGTs but you can see by the plugs (these were pulled after a pass). The four center plugs always are dead white and the outers are always pig rich, same on the dyno also. I have swapped around injectors, leaked/compression test on the motor and its fine. Under boost most likely you wont see any problems. I have tried different spacers also. Wideband (one on each header) shows 15:1 a/f but its black smoking the whole way down the track so I dunno
If I had a stock style intake I would try it but I dont.
09-24-2004, 10:07 PM
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Thanks for posting thos pics KP. I don't think I will be going with this intake for an N/A setup. I wish I could tell ya something to help but that looks like the design of the intake causing that.
Brad
Brad
09-24-2004, 10:17 PM
#33
I'm not trying to discourage anyone from buying one, its possible a carb or a single hole TB may work better and obviously harlan is running well with one. I can trim individual injectors with the Gen7 but that is more or less a band aid but what happens when I decide to spray a 250 shot through the plenum.. This is the first port injected single plane intake I have ever fooled with so I was hoping someone else with a big cammed n/a setup was running one just to compare.
09-25-2004, 05:42 AM
#34
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well i am running this intake with my Solid roller. however i wanted the stock hood to be in one piece without making a hole in it, so a custom elbow was made and a 90mm TB was attached to it. as results, i wasnt happy with it, i lost lots of Tq and gained about 7hp over the the LS6 intake. i dont know if the 4 barrel TB will react better than the elbow on N/A
09-25-2004, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by kp
I'm not trying to discourage anyone from buying one, its possible a carb or a single hole TB may work better and obviously harlan is running well with one. I can trim individual injectors with the Gen7 but that is more or less a band aid but what happens when I decide to spray a 250 shot through the plenum.. This is the first port injected single plane intake I have ever fooled with so I was hoping someone else with a big cammed n/a setup was running one just to compare.
I can see how a carb setup would work fine as well because the fuel is pulled from the booster with the air and already mixed so it gets a more even distrobution.
I did think about trimming the individual injectors to compensate but as you stated this is more of a bandaid.
Would running a single hole TB vs a 4 barrel TB make a difference on an N/A setup?
I have seen a TB from Accel that bolts up to a 4150 flange with one large throttle blade.
There are alot of "Retro" EFI setups like this to change over from a carb to EFI and they seem to be doing fine. But all I have seen on these is in the magazines where they like to leave out little stuff like this. So any info from there I feel is a little Bias.
I am in no way bashing this setup. Nor have I written it off as an option for me. I am just trying to get as much info as I can before I build my new motor. That way there will be alot less "bugs" to work out when it all gets together.
Thats why this site rocks! I don't know of any other place I can get the technical information from actual expeirience of others.
Thanks for sharing!!!
Brad
09-25-2004, 09:27 AM
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One more thing.
When i add a large shot of N2O with this setup I could do it with a plate setup and not worry as much about fuel puddleing in the intake because this thing is designed to flow Fuel and Air.
Most will say just do a direct port and That is definately an option. A plate system in addition to that DP is an option as well
Brad
When i add a large shot of N2O with this setup I could do it with a plate setup and not worry as much about fuel puddleing in the intake because this thing is designed to flow Fuel and Air.
Most will say just do a direct port and That is definately an option. A plate system in addition to that DP is an option as well
Brad
09-25-2004, 09:47 AM
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Usually the Elbows are reserved for forced induction cars...I heard that it really jacks with flow on a NA car, unless it is tappered just right(something to do with the cross section of the elbow slowing velocity WAY down). I think you would be better served with a carb style TB, instead of a elbow/TB.
And a 250 shot THROUGH the plenium is pretty much on the limit for what you want to spray without a fogger. There are specialty companys such as Wilson that make plates to spray more, but distubuiton through the intake has always been a problem on single plane style intakes on alot of smallblocks. The solution is to keep your shot in the 200-250 range, and use a fogger for anything else.
Chris
And a 250 shot THROUGH the plenium is pretty much on the limit for what you want to spray without a fogger. There are specialty companys such as Wilson that make plates to spray more, but distubuiton through the intake has always been a problem on single plane style intakes on alot of smallblocks. The solution is to keep your shot in the 200-250 range, and use a fogger for anything else.
Chris
09-25-2004, 09:51 AM
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Thats the plan right now. Probably wont go more than 200 on the plate BTW. And I do not like the Idea of using an elbow. That kinda negates the whole reason for using this intake.
Thanks!
Brad
Thanks!
Brad
09-25-2004, 10:27 AM
#39
I agree about the elbow thing, when they claim excellent distribution was that on a stock engine with a carb, injected, big cam (reversion comes into play) so I'll wait and see what others do before I get rid of it.
I have a gemini twin plate on here and I wouldnt go over 250 even though its rated higher, a nice 150-200 would do what I want it to do but until I get all the plugs to look the same I'm not spraying on it. I have sprayed over 250 on single plates with not much issue but those were with very nice intakes on big blocks.
Seeing this is the only manifold of this type available for these the choices are limited, most guys that would use the edelbrock dual plane for conversions arent worried about dyno/track numbers and I have yet to see anyone running very well with these n/a at this point. I still kick around the idea of trying a carb but until I see some other results I'll trim the injectors and wait for something better to come along. Once you get used to the DFI controling the nitrous, fans etc and having the car start/idle this nice with a 270 @ .050 roller cam its kinda hard to think about a carb again
I guess I could send it out to be flowed/ported but by the time the smoke clears there I'd probbaly be better off ebaying this and picking up an 90mm LSx setup - if anyone wants a deal on a WAR intake (match ported only) already drilled for injectors, 1000cfm TB and fuel rails make me an offer
I have a gemini twin plate on here and I wouldnt go over 250 even though its rated higher, a nice 150-200 would do what I want it to do but until I get all the plugs to look the same I'm not spraying on it. I have sprayed over 250 on single plates with not much issue but those were with very nice intakes on big blocks.
Seeing this is the only manifold of this type available for these the choices are limited, most guys that would use the edelbrock dual plane for conversions arent worried about dyno/track numbers and I have yet to see anyone running very well with these n/a at this point. I still kick around the idea of trying a carb but until I see some other results I'll trim the injectors and wait for something better to come along. Once you get used to the DFI controling the nitrous, fans etc and having the car start/idle this nice with a 270 @ .050 roller cam its kinda hard to think about a carb again
I guess I could send it out to be flowed/ported but by the time the smoke clears there I'd probbaly be better off ebaying this and picking up an 90mm LSx setup - if anyone wants a deal on a WAR intake (match ported only) already drilled for injectors, 1000cfm TB and fuel rails make me an offer
09-25-2004, 11:35 AM
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Something else to add.
On a BBC or SBC the heads are arranged differently which puts the intake ports right next to each other instead of spacing them out.
With the LS1 it is set up like a SBFord where all ports are equal distance from each other.
I wonder if the ford guys have the same problem running EFI on a similar intake setup. If there are any running EFI with a single plane intake that is.
Most I have seen run an EFI intake use a factory style intake or something that resembles one.
Most of them are running F/I too.
You tried to use a spacer and it did not help the problem?
Thanks,
Brad
On a BBC or SBC the heads are arranged differently which puts the intake ports right next to each other instead of spacing them out.
With the LS1 it is set up like a SBFord where all ports are equal distance from each other.
I wonder if the ford guys have the same problem running EFI on a similar intake setup. If there are any running EFI with a single plane intake that is.
Most I have seen run an EFI intake use a factory style intake or something that resembles one.
Most of them are running F/I too.
You tried to use a spacer and it did not help the problem?
Thanks,
Brad