Danny

iTrader: (16)

I have a 98 Z M6. My question is:

How much power will it make
Will it be realiable for street use 200 miles/week
Is it a good combination?
How much will just the engine parts cost.

C5R block with 8.9:1 C/R
LS6 manifold
All forged internals
stage III heads and a mild turbo cam
All this with a Incon Twin Turbo system @ 9
pounds.
Tuning...........

Thanks for your help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

2001-WS6

Danny,

Matt Harlan can give you some ideas about what kind of power you're looking at with the 427 Twin Turbo. He beat the stock engine into submission and has harden things up to add more boost. So he can certainly give you and idea on streetability. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Rick

Quickin

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Danny:
<strong> I have a 98 Z M6. My question is:

How much power will it make
Will it be realiable for street use 200 miles/week
Is it a good combination?
How much will just the engine parts cost.

C5R block with 8.9:1 C/R
LS6 manifold
All forged internals
stage III heads and a mild turbo cam
All this with a Incon Twin Turbo system @ 9
pounds.
Tuning...........

Thanks for your help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My first quote for a motor was exactly that. I was told by everyone that the C5R block was a complete waste of money. It offers ZERO performance gains. It does offer re-sleeving if needed some day, but thats remote.
I was quoted about $24,000 for a complete motor using the C5R block.
I don't know much about turbo set-ups, I changed my mind and went with an N/A motor and everything else you see in my sig for the same price. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

FASST

Too much power for a daily driver...I like it though. I agree with the price quote for the motor, ~$24-25k. I believe the Incon setup went for something like $6k...I'd add a variable boost controller with it so you can change for track and street use. Hell, if you're building a motor with a C5R block, I'm assuming you'll be going ***** to the wall with the rest of the internals. With that in mind, 12psi shouldn't cause any problems for you (I wouldn't recommend running that much boost on the street...you'll find yourself facing the wrong way after an accidental downshift <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> )

NEway, I've seen two such setups in person so far, power ranging from high 7XX to 8XX at the wheels. This all depends on Turbo and cam selection and tuning. What are you planning on using?

What kind of drivetrain setup are you thinking about? M6, A4? What components?

BTW, this post might get more action in FI.

Danny

iTrader: (16)

All i want is to bust some a$$ on the street. I like the way turbos sound and all of a sudden spool up. The sound of a BOV makes me jealous to say the least. The engine i'm going to be building myself. All i need to know is how much everything will cost in parts.

What's the difference between stock LS1 and C5R block? How is it better. Will i benefit from it? Thanks for all your help guys. <img border="0" alt="[driving]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_driving3.gif" />

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

@ 9 psi I would say you would make 650-750rwhp if you have enough of a fuel system. 650rwhp is pretty wacky on the street, it's in the realm of too much power for radial tires.

I make 471rwhp now NA with my 422ci, and have a 4700 stall, and 4.11 gears, and it's plenty of power. I can spin a drag radial at 90mph on the highway.

C5R blocks are made by a different supplier for GM, and can be bored out to 4.150. They retail for $6100 bare. Basically a C5R block is double the cost of a bigbore block.

Danny

iTrader: (16)

So what if i get a brand new 01 LS1 block and just have it bored out and stroked. Will that be a better and cheaper what to go? Will it be just as reliable?

Thanks

Quickin

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Danny:
<strong> So what if i get a brand new 01 LS1 block and just have it bored out and stroked. Will that be a better and cheaper what to go? Will it be just as reliable?

Thanks </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Like I said in my first post, the C5R block offeres ZERO performance gains over a regular LS1 block. It's just that the C5R block can be re-sleeved, so your paying that $6,500+/- price tag for insurance.
Boring and/or stroking a regular LS1 block would be ALLOT cheaper. You save $6,500+/- by not using the C5R block.
Leave the C5R block to the racers. If you have money to burn, then go ahead and get it. But, you won't make a single HP more than the guy with the LS1.
Now, if you said you wanted the C5R heads as well, that's a different story, but then you also wouldn
t have an LS1 based block anymore either and you would need a custom intake.

Just do what everyone else is doing, use the stock block, there friggin awesome man.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I'm going to respectfully disagree with the last post.

The C5R block is different, and has thicker webbing so it's stronger than a stock block. It's also capable of 4.150 overbore, which is not extreme for this block.

You could take a 01 LS1 block and build a 427ci monster with the new Darton sleeves that are big right now.

FASST

You can't just "bore" out an LS1. If you want the same bore measurement as a C5R block you will need to resleeve the block. Several of the site sponsors can supply a block with Darton sleeves (the current industry standard in larger than stock sleeves for Al blocks). I don't know if reliability is as good as a C5R block, but it will most likely be good enough for your app.

To be honest, if you're just going for a bad *** street setup, you're better off keeping your motor close to stock dimensions, building the motor for boost and again using the boost controller to suit your driving needs at the time. The cost of a larger motor probably won't give you much in the way of useable power. 12-14psi of boost on a stock cube car (one built to handle the boost) will probably put down ~550rwtq. That's plenty to put your *** sideways from even a highway speed roll. Anything above those hp/tq numbers really becomes more of a burden on the street. Just my .02

InvisibleSun

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong>

You could take a 01 LS1 block and build a 427ci monster with the new Darton sleeves that are big right now. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is what MMS is going to be doing for me next month. It seemed like the safest and cheapest alternative to the C5R.

alexWS6

How about an Iron block?

I was wondering why no one has mentioned this yet. From what I've read it seems that they are cheaper than an ls1 or c5r block and are stronger and most likely better in a FI setup anyway. Only disadvantage would be the added weight.
Does that sound about right?

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Sure Alex, I have a 4.060 bore iron block and with my 4.075 stroke it comes out to a 422ci motor.

I do not think any sponsor will sell more than a 4.060 overbored iron block for a forced induction application.

And then the only way to get to 427ci is with more stroke which means you need to go to a 6" rod which creates a bad rod to stroke ratio.

Danny

iTrader: (16)

Ahh hell with it. I'm just going to through in a lunati 382 stoker kit, a nice turbo cam and a pair of LS6 ported & polished racing heads. I believe this will do it for me. For racing i'll keep the boost at 12-14 PSI. Besides with all this power going in my car also weights 3150 w/o driver and looks stock as hell. All interior.

Thanks guys. I really appreciate it.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Danny, I am doing a 375ci iron block with a turbo setup and hope to hit 725rwhp... Probably 12 lbs of boost on the turbos I would run.

Danny

iTrader: (16)

Wow that's cool. I'm not really a fan of the Iron block. My car really hates weight. When i have more than one person in the car she doesn't run good until the next day. I think we'll stay aluminum for now. Let me know how your setup goes.

InvisibleSun

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by FASST:
<strong> Too much power for a daily driver...I like it though. I agree with the price quote for the motor, ~$24-25k. I believe the Incon setup went for something like $6k...I'd add a variable boost controller with it so you can change for track and street use. Hell, if you're building a motor with a C5R block, I'm assuming you'll be going ***** to the wall with the rest of the internals. With that in mind, 12psi shouldn't cause any problems for you (I wouldn't recommend running that much boost on the street...you'll find yourself facing the wrong way after an accidental downshift <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> )

NEway, I've seen two such setups in person so far, power ranging from high 7XX to 8XX at the wheels. This all depends on Turbo and cam selection and tuning. What are you planning on using?

What kind of drivetrain setup are you thinking about? M6, A4? What components?

BTW, this post might get more action in FI. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do you think an M6 would allow for better control of that kind of power (700+RWHP) or would you be better off with an A4 with a TH400 and Yank?

FASST

"better" control...that's kind of subjective. More control, yes. Unfortunately, the control will only be as good as the driver <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Better adaptability. An auto is great if you're going to keep the car for just street, or just track. It's hard to get a setup that will be ideal for both. With a manual, you just need to change your driving style.

InvisibleSun

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by FASST:
<strong> "better" control...that's kind of subjective. More control, yes. Unfortunately, the control will only be as good as the driver <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Better adaptability. An auto is great if you're going to keep the car for just street, or just track. It's hard to get a setup that will be ideal for both. With a manual, you just need to change your driving style. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for the reply! Just not sure if I should build-up my T56 or swap out to an A4...

Quickin

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong> I'm going to respectfully disagree with the last post.

The C5R block is different, and has thicker webbing so it's stronger than a stock block. It's also capable of 4.150 overbore, which is not extreme for this block.

You could take a 01 LS1 block and build a 427ci monster with the new Darton sleeves that are big right now. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Disagreeing with the fact that the C5R block won't put out any more power than an LS1 block??

All specs and parts being equal, they offer zero power gains. Colonel will tell you that as well. I saw one at Norris Motorsports when I dropped my car off, if memory serves the only difference that was shown to me was near where the crank is mounted, the oil had a couple other passage holes to pass through, something like that. But I was told by every top tuner (MMS, ARE, Norris, LPE, MTI, Katech) everyone, that it offers no power gains.

The C5R heads change all that though.