Building a 408ci
Let me add my take in on this. I had my 408 built about 7 months ago. I didnt have the money for Stage 3 heads so I used some Absolute Speed Stage 2 heads, they flowed about 295@ .600 which is nowhere near enough. I used the stock LS6 intake, Shaner TB, 1 3/4 headers instead of 1 7/8 and True Duals. I am using an Eagle crank and rods, Diamond Pistons w/ 2 CC Valve Relief. I am using 38# Lucas Injectors. Anyway you can see what I have done and how it performs with not having the right heads (check sig). I am in the process of getting some Stage 3 heads riht now and hopefully will be in the 470+ rwhp range. Then intake, TB and headers I am hoping for 500 rwhp. I will be upping the cam as well. I have about $5500 in my motor and I have been told that is really cheap for a 408.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,242
Likes: 0
From: Lakeland, FL
Originally Posted by necrocannibal
Let me add my take in on this. I had my 408 built about 7 months ago. I didnt have the money for Stage 3 heads so I used some Absolute Speed Stage 2 heads, they flowed about 295@ .600 which is nowhere near enough. I used the stock LS6 intake, Shaner TB, 1 3/4 headers instead of 1 7/8 and True Duals. I am using an Eagle crank and rods, Diamond Pistons w/ 2 CC Valve Relief. I am using 38# Lucas Injectors. Anyway you can see what I have done and how it performs with not having the right heads (check sig). I am in the process of getting some Stage 3 heads riht now and hopefully will be in the 470+ rwhp range. Then intake, TB and headers I am hoping for 500 rwhp. I will be upping the cam as well. I have about $5500 in my motor and I have been told that is really cheap for a 408.
man one big thing is your cam is tiny for your cubes!!!! You might be suprised at what a difference just a cam swap might do for you, and yes you need heads that are matched for your bigger bore as well. I bet you can see 550 + rwhp with the right combo
Originally Posted by Mike K.
man one big thing is your cam is tiny for your cubes!!!! You might be suprised at what a difference just a cam swap might do for you, and yes you need heads that are matched for your bigger bore as well. I bet you can see 550 + rwhp with the right combo
I know I wasnt expecting to build a 408 when it happened. I bought Stage 2 heads to put on my 346 and pulled the heads off and piston #7 had a hole in it. We decided to build the 408 and I had to stay with those heads. The cam choice was my engine builders, I guess he was trying to stay somewhat streetable. Around Christmas time I am going to do Stage 3 heads and a bigger cam and hope for 500 rwhp.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,242
Likes: 0
From: Lakeland, FL
Originally Posted by necrocannibal
I know I wasnt expecting to build a 408 when it happened. I bought Stage 2 heads to put on my 346 and pulled the heads off and piston #7 had a hole in it. We decided to build the 408 and I had to stay with those heads. The cam choice was my engine builders, I guess he was trying to stay somewhat streetable. Around Christmas time I am going to do Stage 3 heads and a bigger cam and hope for 500 rwhp.
So do you think (anyone) that since the LS2 is out an aluminum 402 is the way to go now? Before it seemed as if the 408 was a great medium but the aluminum 402 saves some weight. I've been thinking about doing a 402 for next year. I just need a place that I can get everything machined and balenced becasue I want to do the assembly.
On The Tree
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Park Ridge, IL (Borders Chicago)
Originally Posted by necrocannibal
Let me add my take in on this. I had my 408 built about 7 months ago. I didnt have the money for Stage 3 heads so I used some Absolute Speed Stage 2 heads, they flowed about 295@ .600 which is nowhere near enough. I used the stock LS6 intake, Shaner TB, 1 3/4 headers instead of 1 7/8 and True Duals. I am using an Eagle crank and rods, Diamond Pistons w/ 2 CC Valve Relief. I am using 38# Lucas Injectors. Anyway you can see what I have done and how it performs with not having the right heads (check sig). I am in the process of getting some Stage 3 heads riht now and hopefully will be in the 470+ rwhp range. Then intake, TB and headers I am hoping for 500 rwhp. I will be upping the cam as well. I have about $5500 in my motor and I have been told that is really cheap for a 408.
although i know all of the stuff below....... Its gentlemen like YOU that keep me coming here and knowing if i need a detailed answer (something more than "you should buy xxxxx " ) I can get it here. 
Dame
Dame
Originally Posted by KingCrapBox
'Best' is a relative term. It's all about being cost effective.
If you're looking for a setup that you can make 600HP with, Eagle would be more than plenty. I would recommend Eagle for anything up to about 800HP. After that, it would be ideal to upgrade to something a little stronger. Peace of mind goes a long ways. Callies makes a couple of nice LS1 cranks. They typically retail for about $1,600. If you really want the piece of mind, or you plan to make power numbers of 1000, the Lunati is where you want to be. There are other crankshafts available for the LS1, but for the most part they're overkill unless you need a VERY light crank, or you're going to be doing endurance racing. For those applications you should call Sonny Bryant or Moldex. Prices on these cranks can range between $4,000 - $6,000!
As far as pistons go, you can't really go wrong with JE or SRP, especially if you're looking for a street cruiser. If you're looking to build something that can run with the fastest of them, Wiseco or Mahle would be a good choice. They might also be worth upgrading to if you don't want to have any worries, but I haven't seen any problems with anything from JE or SRP.
As far as connecting rods, it's the same story as the cranks. If you're looking for your car to be a street cruiser, Eagle's going to be your best bet. Those H-Beam rods they sell are much tougher than what people think. The Lunati Pro-Billet rods are also very nice, but they're about twice as much as the Eagle stuff. If you're looking to make anywhere over 800 I would recommend stepping up to the Lunati rods.
Hope you don't mind the article, I'm bored.
If you're looking for a setup that you can make 600HP with, Eagle would be more than plenty. I would recommend Eagle for anything up to about 800HP. After that, it would be ideal to upgrade to something a little stronger. Peace of mind goes a long ways. Callies makes a couple of nice LS1 cranks. They typically retail for about $1,600. If you really want the piece of mind, or you plan to make power numbers of 1000, the Lunati is where you want to be. There are other crankshafts available for the LS1, but for the most part they're overkill unless you need a VERY light crank, or you're going to be doing endurance racing. For those applications you should call Sonny Bryant or Moldex. Prices on these cranks can range between $4,000 - $6,000!
As far as pistons go, you can't really go wrong with JE or SRP, especially if you're looking for a street cruiser. If you're looking to build something that can run with the fastest of them, Wiseco or Mahle would be a good choice. They might also be worth upgrading to if you don't want to have any worries, but I haven't seen any problems with anything from JE or SRP.
As far as connecting rods, it's the same story as the cranks. If you're looking for your car to be a street cruiser, Eagle's going to be your best bet. Those H-Beam rods they sell are much tougher than what people think. The Lunati Pro-Billet rods are also very nice, but they're about twice as much as the Eagle stuff. If you're looking to make anywhere over 800 I would recommend stepping up to the Lunati rods.
Hope you don't mind the article, I'm bored.
This has turned into a nice thread with some good info.
Hopefully future 408 guys will use the search and read the info here.
BTW the 402 will be very popular soon.
Probally a 406 will be even more popular once they start
boring the LS2 block 4.020.
Hopefully future 408 guys will use the search and read the info here.
BTW the 402 will be very popular soon.
Probally a 406 will be even more popular once they start
boring the LS2 block 4.020.
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,242
Likes: 0
From: Lakeland, FL
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
This has turned into a nice thread with some good info.
Hopefully future 408 guys will use the search and read the info here.
BTW the 402 will be very popular soon.
Probally a 406 will be even more popular once they start
boring the LS2 block 4.020.
Hopefully future 408 guys will use the search and read the info here.
BTW the 402 will be very popular soon.
Probally a 406 will be even more popular once they start
boring the LS2 block 4.020.
I know my next motor would be a 402 as long as all this ls2 swap to ls1 works ok, I hate the weight of the iron but it does/has taken alot of punishment from me, also do you think it would be safe to bore it out that much? .020 on an aluminum? On the current ls1's the max safe/cleanup bore is only .006 which is why I ask.
Originally Posted by Mike K.
I know my next motor would be a 402 as long as all this ls2 swap to ls1 works ok, I hate the weight of the iron but it does/has taken alot of punishment from me, also do you think it would be safe to bore it out that much? .020 on an aluminum? On the current ls1's the max safe/cleanup bore is only .006 which is why I ask.
It is a little bigger but me personally I would be afraid to bore it over too much. Aluminum isnt as strong as iron and it would just be a nice peace of mind to have the iron block under the hood.
Originally Posted by necrocannibal
Let me add my take in on this. I had my 408 built about 7 months ago. I didnt have the money for Stage 3 heads so I used some Absolute Speed Stage 2 heads, they flowed about 295@ .600 which is nowhere near enough. I used the stock LS6 intake, Shaner TB, 1 3/4 headers instead of 1 7/8 and True Duals. I am using an Eagle crank and rods, Diamond Pistons w/ 2 CC Valve Relief. I am using 38# Lucas Injectors. Anyway you can see what I have done and how it performs with not having the right heads (check sig). I am in the process of getting some Stage 3 heads riht now and hopefully will be in the 470+ rwhp range. Then intake, TB and headers I am hoping for 500 rwhp. I will be upping the cam as well. I have about $5500 in my motor and I have been told that is really cheap for a 408.
on my 408, my "stage II" heads with 2.02/1.60 valves and 'only' flow 293 @ .600 and put down 542/535 on they dyno and traps 130+
midlift numbers are what counts and valve size isn't a huge factor, IMO
What would be the smallest cam and heads you would want to use with a 402/408 and what should you expect from it as far as streetability goes? Is it something that could still be my daily driver?
damn guys thanks for all the info that u guys have given, this will really help me when the time comes to building my 408. I just hope that I get the best set up possible in my first time building it. I mean I hope that dont get bad heads or wrong cam that wont get the most power out of this 408, but still making it a streeable car.
Originally Posted by KingCrapBox
'Best' is a relative term. It's all about being cost effective.
If you're looking for a setup that you can make 600HP with, Eagle would be more than plenty. I would recommend Eagle for anything up to about 800HP. After that, it would be ideal to upgrade to something a little stronger. Peace of mind goes a long ways. Callies makes a couple of nice LS1 cranks. They typically retail for about $1,600. If you really want the piece of mind, or you plan to make power numbers of 1000, the Lunati is where you want to be. There are other crankshafts available for the LS1, but for the most part they're overkill unless you need a VERY light crank, or you're going to be doing endurance racing. For those applications you should call Sonny Bryant or Moldex. Prices on these cranks can range between $4,000 - $6,000!
As far as pistons go, you can't really go wrong with JE or SRP, especially if you're looking for a street cruiser. If you're looking to build something that can run with the fastest of them, Wiseco or Mahle would be a good choice. They might also be worth upgrading to if you don't want to have any worries, but I haven't seen any problems with anything from JE or SRP.
As far as connecting rods, it's the same story as the cranks. If you're looking for your car to be a street cruiser, Eagle's going to be your best bet. Those H-Beam rods they sell are much tougher than what people think. The Lunati Pro-Billet rods are also very nice, but they're about twice as much as the Eagle stuff. If you're looking to make anywhere over 800 I would recommend stepping up to the Lunati rods.
Hope you don't mind the article, I'm bored.
If you're looking for a setup that you can make 600HP with, Eagle would be more than plenty. I would recommend Eagle for anything up to about 800HP. After that, it would be ideal to upgrade to something a little stronger. Peace of mind goes a long ways. Callies makes a couple of nice LS1 cranks. They typically retail for about $1,600. If you really want the piece of mind, or you plan to make power numbers of 1000, the Lunati is where you want to be. There are other crankshafts available for the LS1, but for the most part they're overkill unless you need a VERY light crank, or you're going to be doing endurance racing. For those applications you should call Sonny Bryant or Moldex. Prices on these cranks can range between $4,000 - $6,000!
As far as pistons go, you can't really go wrong with JE or SRP, especially if you're looking for a street cruiser. If you're looking to build something that can run with the fastest of them, Wiseco or Mahle would be a good choice. They might also be worth upgrading to if you don't want to have any worries, but I haven't seen any problems with anything from JE or SRP.
As far as connecting rods, it's the same story as the cranks. If you're looking for your car to be a street cruiser, Eagle's going to be your best bet. Those H-Beam rods they sell are much tougher than what people think. The Lunati Pro-Billet rods are also very nice, but they're about twice as much as the Eagle stuff. If you're looking to make anywhere over 800 I would recommend stepping up to the Lunati rods.
Hope you don't mind the article, I'm bored.
damn thanks for all this info this really helps me choose the right crank and pistons for my set up. what type of heads and cam do you guys think would be the best for this moto?
Originally Posted by 383ss
that statement couldn't be further from the truth. peak flow numbers don't mean jack.
on my 408, my "stage II" heads with 2.02/1.60 valves and 'only' flow 293 @ .600 and put down 542/535 on they dyno and traps 130+
midlift numbers are what counts and valve size isn't a huge factor, IMO
on my 408, my "stage II" heads with 2.02/1.60 valves and 'only' flow 293 @ .600 and put down 542/535 on they dyno and traps 130+
midlift numbers are what counts and valve size isn't a huge factor, IMO
We have talked about this before. You are running 13 to 1 compression, or some ungodly high number, on a strip only drag car. I am only running 11 to 1. Plus you have bigger headers and better intake and all. I am going to do a head swap to stage 3 heads and change nothing else and I will get back to you and let you know how much it changes.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,157
Likes: 1
From: Texas
Originally Posted by ninobrn99
What would be the smallest cam and heads you would want to use with a 402/408 and what should you expect from it as far as streetability goes? Is it something that could still be my daily driver?
This question is almost impossible to answer. Whats streetable to one guy is not at all streetable to the next. Alot of people say that a trex isnt streetable, but I street mine every day and dont think twice about it.
that is too true!!! I mean for the average joe not wanting a hard, lumpy i have to give it gas just to keep it idle car. I have a F10 and my cousin has a similar cam and its very very streetable. Im sure adding a bigger cam and the right tune would work. I was just trying to get an idea as well as giving everyone else one on what they should look for. I mean you wouldnt want to get a 224 or something of the sort along with stage 3 heads right....
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,157
Likes: 1
From: Texas
Originally Posted by ninobrn99
that is too true!!! I mean for the average joe not wanting a hard, lumpy i have to give it gas just to keep it idle car. I have a F10 and my cousin has a similar cam and its very very streetable. Im sure adding a bigger cam and the right tune would work. I was just trying to get an idea as well as giving everyone else one on what they should look for. I mean you wouldnt want to get a 224 or something of the sort along with stage 3 heads right....
Well, I street a 'big' cam every day and never give it gas when im at the light........unless theres a mustang next to me
They have done amazing things with tuning.